Coincident Dragon MK I vs MK II

Thanks for the info.

I ended up getting the Dragon MK I. It does some things better than the Pass Labs XA30.5 and the Pass did some things better. So it is a mixed bag.

The pass has better bass, sounds fuller, and has more weight or umphff to it.

The Dragon has better separation, more 3D, and very smooth, which I really like. However, it sounds a little thin compared to the pass amp. As a result it has less bass drive.

Any advice on how I can tweak the Dragons so they produce more weight to the music?

Thanks,
Ernie

Hi Ernie,

I think I'm reading that you like the sound of 211 high power tube amp. Yes, i agree with you the sound is 3D, natural and organic. Though XA30.5 has only 30W class A power, i'm surprised that you could hear more bass weight...maybe SS does offer that bass magic! Or maybe listen to the sound and if possible, compare to 'live' music...determine which one (pass Lab or Dragons) is more accurate.

Everyone has different preference. I've owned Coincident products since 2004 and increasingly more and more, after all these years, i think i can safely say, Coincident makes neutral gears (speakers and amps)...i'm sure there are people out there thinks it's "bland" and prefers more coloured sound, perhaps romantic sound.

I still miss the romantic but highly coloured 300B sound...so the Franks though neutral and un-coloured, plays all music accurately. Unlike some romantic 300B tube amps which sounded romantic, hence, suitable for some music only. You can throw all kinds of music at it, and it will reproduce music true to its design. Most 300B SET class A amps or even 211/845 class A are lower power...to make it high power, manufacturer chooses Push Pull DHT design...Coincident has amazingly made it (Dragons MK2) similar to the more accurate Franks, in terms of tonality, PRAT, Bass,dynamics and soundstage. If your source and preamp is up to the task, you can hear more details.

Personally, i like the sound of Franks but prefer the power and bass weight of high power SS amps. If bi-amping is not in your plans and you're not planning on upgrading your cables to get more bass weight (a costly route)...you might want to consider either upgrading your speakers or even add a quality subwoofer like REL, JL Audio or Seaton Subs. I have not heard any of these three subs, but the reason i suggest a subwoofer is, I've tried connecting a HT subwoofer, Energy brand, to my 2-channel music/movie setup, and the bass weight was much better with subwoofer when watching movies. Even when listening to 2-channels music, it did sound better with more bass weight.

There are some audiophiles who uses Dragons MK1 amp as bass amp (in bi-amp setup) only if details and noise level bothers them. Mk2 amp is a huge improvement, imho, so the pricing and performance will more than justify the purchase compare to getting the Franks.

Jimmy

Jiamming,
I agree with your characterization of the Frankenstein, transparent and
quite minimal coloration. The bass is very good but not the best available
obviously.If the Dragon amplifier has essentially similar character as the
Frankenstein(but with more bass and power) then it should respond
significantly to various brands of tubes(as the Frankenstein surety do).I
don't know if there's as many choices for the 211 tube as there are for the
300b.From everything I've read or heard said, the MK II Dragons are a
considerable improvement (and many felt the MK I was very
good).Remember that speakers matter, some may be better with the SS
amp and others are better with tube amplification. I'd recommend the
Coincident power cord, it's excellent with their components and is
reasonably
priced.I've never heard the Dragon described as thin or to have diminished
bass,
could it be poor match for the speakers?

Well, after listening more, I have some different thoughts about it. I've come to the conclusion that the Dragons are not thin sounding. They are very neutral sounding. Whereas the Pass amp was warmer sounding and in my opinion has a slight upper bass hump.

So what I'm experiencing sounds like something is missing because my brain is used to hearing more warmth and bass. I just need to relax and adjust to the new sound :)

I also want to add that I love bass. The low end is very important to me, probably more so than most people. I find that solid bass helps with adding a foundation to the music.

I have tried upgrading the 211 tubes over the stock ones. I just installed some new Psvane 211-T tubes and I heard an instant improvement. So that is a move in the right direction. I also have a JL Audio Fathom 10" sub which helps too.

For power, I'm using Pangea AC-9 power cords, which I find are an excellent value. I'll check into the Coincident power cords.

I'm not sure if switching out the 300B tube could help. It came with the EH Golden 300B. Israel recommends the 300B Black Bottles. Is this the same as the Shuguang Treasure? Would this be an improvement over the EH I'm using?

Thanks for helping me get my Dragons dialed in.
Ernie

Erndog,
That's a wise move , give yourself adequate time with a different sounding
amplifier then you can compare and contrast. Jimmy's observations stated
in earlier post were on the mark.I'm not surprised that upgrading the 211
tube made a significant improvement, a transparent amp allows each
different tube's character to become apparent . Israel is right, the Black
Treasure tube is much better than the respectable EH 300b and you'll easily
hear the better sound of this driver tube. The Coincident amplifiers will
reveal the natural tone and body but won't add gratuitous warmth and
color.They are very honest amplifiers.As you discovered, patience pays off.
Regards,