45 Type Push/Pull

Charles1dad,

We are in agreement about the strength of SETs. At higher volumes SETS remain remarkably composed and do not fall apart--they just stop getting louder as their limit is reached instead of breaking up. But, because they do produce so little power compared to other forms of amplification, they can sound compressed when played at higher volumes because they are really being pushed too hard. This is not that evident with most music, particularly pop-rock or jazz. To me the dynamic limits of amps are most evident listening to large scale choral works, such as Rachmaninov's Vespers--I can hear compression at what seems modest volume levels with this work.

You mentioned, above, the Takatsuki 300b. I've never heard that tube. What would you say is the tube delivering sound closest to that tube? I know the Japanese are big fans of Western Electric, so I would guess that is the kind of sound they would try to clone. Of the 300b tubes I've heard, I like the one Kron put out about 10 years ago--quite punchy and lean compared to most 300bs.

Larryi,I agree, certain large scale music if loud enough can push a SET to its limit. No amplifier is best at everything, some amps are better for the example you gave but then those amps would fall short elsewhere. The Takatsui-TA 300b is superb and I much preferred it compared to a re-issue WE 300b in my amplifier(the 'vintage' WE 300b is just too costly).The Sophia Royal Princess is excellent in my amp(close to the Takatsuki in sound quality). I just ordered a pair of the EML mesh plate 300b(a true woven metal mesh tube). I `ve been very curious to hear what this tube is capable of compared to the Takasuki. The EML has developed a quite a reputation for good sound and reliability.
Regards,

Generally, if you seek SET sound, it will be better to listen to a 300B SET amp than a 45 push-pull, though if both are executed equally well, the push-pull amp will yield more disciplined bass. Getting the deep bass equally controlled from 300B SET will usually require a higher level of execution, particular in the output transformers but also in power supply, at higher cost.

It may take some careful listening to discern it, but if you have similar power and execution push-pull vs. SET for time-adjacent comparison, you may discern the presence of subtle push-pull crossover notch grunge. If you don't notice it, no problem. If you do, once you hear the absence of it in SET it's hard to live with crossover notch haze and grunge in p-p topology ever again. It's least noticeable however with triodes.

Usually push-pull at same power and execution level as SET will give you better bass definition and more slam. Top end attack may be sharper too, but this will very much depend on SET voicing as well as on the choice of power tube brand, materials and plate type. In a 300B SET amp, there can be a substantial difference in voicing and dynamic character between a mesh plate Chinese tube and, for instance, a KR solid plate. There's a lot of variety in 300B tubes now.

The holistic tone and unity presentation of triodes in single-ended topology has an organic and harmonic completeness that is elusive if not absent in push-pull, despite the push-pull implementation almost certainly measuring better. Execution counts for a lot. A superior push-pull triode amp can easily beat a mediocre SET implementation, On all the qualities you'd assign to SET I the first place. Put another way, either topology has to be done right. Still, the opening postulate above applies.

Phil

Agree,implementation of a product is crucial to the actual performance
level. I'd also prefer a well design and built PP amp over an average SET
amp . However if both are done at a high quality level then give me The
SET.I find the level of involvement and emotional connection with music is
for me unmatched.I react to them in a very spontaneous way, head
nodding, foot tapping, humming, imaginary playing along with the
musicians etc.They provoke a lot of goose bump moments and completely
satisfying immersion into the soul of music. These are attributes that can't
be measured yet are so powerful when present.Other amplifier
types can do this(to various degrees) ,but in my experience not nearly as
often nor as deeply
felt.SET amplifiers won't be the answer for everyone but they are ideal for
me.I haven't any experience with the DHT push pull amps, just the pentode
tube types (I like them wired triode rather than ultra linear).I wonder how
much I like is actually due to the DHT tube genre itself.They seem more
musically natural and present more realism then IDHT tubes (well to me
anyway). 
Regards,

Just remembered that I have heard the VAC Renaissance amplifiers which are DHT push pull.It's been quite a while but I really liked what I heard from them.
Regards,