Square room Soundstage??

sadly I have carpet and funiture in there. I also know for that at one time the equipment did throw a deep sound stage behind the speakers. The guy who sold it to me also stated that it usaully thows deep sound stage behind the speakers.

I guess I am really going to have to work to set up a room that allows for a soundstage. Eventually I will get a conditoner and room treatments. I know it can sound so much better its terrible I am having a hard time getting it back. I also plan on reading up on hi-fi and accoustics. Maybe I will come out learning a great deal from this challege.

Near field is producing the best results in that room because it helps take the room out of the equation. The first impulse (direct from the speakers) is higher in amplitude relative to the room reflections. In a way, that confirms that treating the room will improve results. At this point, that's all you should be thinking about - improving the room. Until you do that, you're just setting yourself up for a frustrating experience.

Generally your goal should be exactly that - to eliminate the room as a variable. In my small, almost squarish room (12 x 14), this was accomplished by positioning the speakers such that the room is minimized as much as possible, a sort of quasi near-field approach. Speakers are set 9 ft apart along the long wall and only 7 ft (ideal minimum of 6 ft) away from my seat and about 2 ft from the side walls. This puts the listening position only 1 1/2 ft from the rear wall. This arrangement facilitates almost 5 ft (ideally 3 - 5 ft)of space behind the speakers for a fairly deep sound stage to develop. The wide placement, with toe-in so that the inside edge of the speakers is barely visible from the seat, gives width to the stage with excellent focus in the center. I have 4 GIK bass traps, placed using mirrors to find the first reflections, on the side walls and behind the speakers. There is two tri-traps in the corners behind the speakers, carpet on the floor and a few pieces of furniture placed about the room.

If I was trying to replicate this set up, I'd start with similar placement and refine from there with minor adjustments until I am satisfied. This set up will give a huge sound stage with excellent front to back depth plus great width and height.

Ok the last two posts seem very helpful. I think I will try room treatmemts before amp re-cap or power cond. ok I have found some pretty cheap pannels and bass traps. Can I go with cheaper or ones or are they complety worthless. also I get the mirror method but do I use this method with bass trap and accoustic pannels. If put pannels and and. bass traps in corners behind speakers how do I position. Bass traps in the corner on the floor with the pannels directly behind speaker. Then mirror method method on first reflection?

Darkstar - read over my earlier response again. I think the details you need are included, but to try and clarify.

In a very small room like that, you need to cover most of your wall space with treatments. Not necessarily floor to ceiling, but 4 foot panels centered height wise with the speakers. In the corners you will need heavy bass trapping, again I'll recommend floor to ceiling GIK tri-traps in at least 2 corners, and preferably all 4. A GIK soffet trap would work as well, and could be considered.

For the front wall behind the speakers, you'll have about 6 - 6.5 feet of wall left after the tri-traps. I'd put 3 2'x4' panels there which would cover the entire width of the wall. 2" thick panels will work, 4" might be better but more expensive.

Side walls, I'd suggest 2 2'x4' panels per wall, spaced close to each other, and centered on the first reflection point. I'd go with 2" thick panels here.

For the rear wall a diffuser would be the best option I belive. Quality diffusers aren't cheap though, and I'd think you will need about 4'x4' of coverage.

The cheaper panels will work just fine for the most part. Some more expensive panels have things like high frequency membranes, or a wood frame that stands them off from the wall for greater effectiveness. But get whatever fits your budget. You can even make your own for very cheap. I get 4'x8' sheets of rockwool, OC703 equivalent, for about $32 at my local commercial construction supplier ... and Roxul AFB for even cheaper per square foot.

Bottom line is you'll never be happy with that room until you treat it.

To the poster before you, Hew - there's a HUGE difference between a 12'x14' room and a 8.5' square room. I've heard 12x14 rooms sound pretty darn good with no treatments at all, the 8.5 square room however is just about a worst case scenario. Good luck!