Why are subwoofers so polarizing?

It was with 2 DD18 sub's. With there own measurement. The material will Always be the problem of the speed. You cannot change this. For surround Velodyne is fine. For stereo I would not even want it for free. Or even wenn I get money on top to keep it at home. Respons is the keyfactor. How fast a unit can move wenn it is driven. Speed is were it is about, not how low it goes. A better speed will Always give you a better integration with the speakers. Weather you play stereo or even Multi channel. Soon I will get the new Watchdog pure silver sub interconnect from Audioquest. This will even improve it further in speed and accuracy.

Bo, Again, how much time did you spend dialing in the Velodyne's and which program did you use?

A few hours, the owner of the Velodyne had done the room acoustic settings. So I do not know which setting. Also at show's Velodyne did not convince me. I Always do 2 channel testing. The sub needs to be syngron with the frontspeakers. And instruments and voices need to stay small in proportion. Above 80 hz low freq. become touchable. I use my sub from 16hz till 140hz. This is possible because the sub is fast as a rocket. Wenn you have slow sub's like Rel above 80hz they become uncontrolable. Why? Because they are toooooooo slow. I sold many Monitor Audio sub's to clients who bought Rel sub's in the past. It is very simple to compare. The difference is so big you cannot go back anymore to the slow respons.

I'm no engineer here, but I'm having a hard time following this.

Bo, are you basing your ridicule of the performance of the Velodyne and REL subs based on what you heard, or based on some test readings that you got?

What you are claiming strikes me as a bit odd. First, if you are using the REL to cover a frequency range up to 140hz, I think that you are using the REL for a purpose for which it is was not intended. Even REL says that their subs are meant to be a sub bass system. That is, they are meant to cover the lower frequencies for full range speakers.

Second, considering that you are running the sub up to 140hz to get a fuller sound out of the equipment, it seems to me that the deficiencies lie in the speakers being used, rather than the sub. You are using the sub to fill or bloat a frequency range which a speaker should be able to reproduce without the aid of a sub woofer. I would imagine that running a sub up to a frequency that high would have to have an impact on imaging.

In my system, I run a pair of Silverline Minuets with a small REL sub, which I have set to crossover at 50hz, and it sounds pretty darned good to me.

Although I can't comment on the Velodyne subs, it does seem to me that you are ridiculing the RELs for not being able to do something that they were never meant to do.

In the past we Always did use the Rel sub's to about 5 hz max more than the freq. respons were of the speakers freq. respons begin's. 3 years ago wenn we started with Audyssey we did start with 80hz. Because Onkyo is a THX receiver they start at 80 hz. 1 year ago Audyssey start using subwoofers till 120 hz. I never went this high because we had always trouble with all the Rel sub's ( Also with the more expensive ones like the studio)wenn we wanted to go to a higher freq. The first tests to 120 hz I did with the Monitor Audio PLW-15 with very promissing. Later with Audyssey Pro I even went to 140hz. With Audyssey Pro you can get a much better integration with your sub than what is possible by hand settings. One of my client called it voodoo. What he heard he could not believe. I call it stealth inegration, because it is that good. Above 80 hz low freq. are placeable. To 140 hz the sub go's further and voices and instruments are even better focussed and touchable. The show were I was the absolute sound, shopkeepers came to me on Monday. They never heard such a 3-dimensional image what was this touchable. In stereo and in Multi channel I had the same stunning sound. I compare the Monitor Audio sub's to Rel sub's. Former clients with Rel now buy the Monitor Audio sub's. I want my clients to get the best quality for there money. Wenn Rel would be the best I would have sold this. But.....time go's on and they are not the best anymore. I only sell the best to my clients. A brand I really don't care. Wenn later another brand will be better, this will be the next. Rel is not bad, but there are better ones.