what is good sound ?

Newbee: Mrtennis has one solution, but it really isn't so complicated. You either know what a cello sounds like or you don't. Forget whether you're two feet away or two miles away. If you've been around live acoustic music and have paid attention you can tell if a system is coming remotely close to reproducing the sounds/textures/dynamics/nuances and invoking even a trace of the emotions you feel when you listen to a live event. The system is doing this or it isn't and no amount of rationalizing is going to change that fact.

9rw, Interesting summary - FWIW, I've actually heard a cello in my living room played by a friend, as well as a grand piano in his large living room, my daughter singing and playing an acoustic guitar, etc. I regularily attend concerts and performances.

I actually do know what live music sounds like and I've never heard it replicated, not even close, anywhere on any audio system! I certainly have never been able to do it in my home. Everything I have done has been a compromise of some sorts. The biggest compromise for me has been the loss of the natural dynamics of live instruments as heard in an appropriate space. Frankly, IMHO, everything without that is make believe on some level, no matter how you want to rationalize it.

Ain't this hobby fun? We've all got our points of view and we are all right, even Mr T if you just happen to own a quality professional digital recorder, mikes and a lot of expertise and have access to a cellist who will come to your home to make the recording, but then you must also have perfect memory of the live performance so you won't have to have the cellist back eact time to compare the component(s) sound to live music. Ah............:-)

my suggestion does not require a cello. it can rely on an instrument that anyone can "play". since it is always available, there is no need to be dependent upon acoustic memory.

if you replace components, it is an approach which gives you an idea as to how close you are to the timbre of a cymbal. does anyone have another idea ?

referring again to the example of the cello, you can take advantage of that situation and replace components while the musician is there.

The problem I have with the idea of this question is in the title. The word "good" implies there is a human being making a judgement based on whatever the heck it is you guys decide is appropriate, for instance ('good" and 'bad' do not exist in nature nor some kind of objective reality - they are concepts that exist only in the human mind). So, then is that supposed to represent some kind of standard for the rest of the world to aspire to when it comes to the reproduction of sound? Can we all join the "Good Sound" club if we qualify and can afford the membership fee and dues? Will there be a committee to determine who gets to join, and who isn't quite 'right'? Will we have to qualify on one of those "is it live, or is it Memorex" tests. Must we have heard a cello in our living room before being considered? As far as "accuracy" becoming a means of judgement, I'd have to agree with that I've never heard a system that sounds like live music, and I do listen to live music, have heard cellos and violins in my house. Various systems, in various rooms have varying strengths and weaknesses depending upon the material you feed them. The idea of the cello in your own living room test is a bit odd because, well, even if I do record a cello in my living room with minimilast proecessing and brilliant mixing and recording with the best gear available, and then actually create a system that makes that sound quite "realistic" in my own living room...that's all fine and good...if that were the only recording I listened to for the rest of my life. Not gonna' happen though. And I can tell you with great confidence that the vast majority of the music I listen to was definitely not recorded in my living room. In fact, I'd venture to guess that the rooms most of them were recorded in bear no resemblence whatsoever to my living room. Also, unfortunately, most of the music I do listen to has had some mixing and processing, and there are usually one or more human beings that have made decisions about how to implement all that mixing and processing. I too do enjoy the illusion that my system has brought musicians and instruments and an environment into my living room. Given that it is an illusion at best, it is up to the listener to judge the effectiveness of that illusion. That will vary from person to person. Some are more easily convinced than others. Those in the elite "Good Sound Club" who've heard cellos and pianos and cymbals and bagpipes in their very own homes can continue to feel special that they are in such a privelidged position to judge such matters with peerless integrity. Pardon me if I don't drop to my knees and bend deeply at the waist, but while I'm here, would any of you happen to have any Grey Poupon?

Marco

Marco, I agree with you. I do not need to join a club to distort what I believe sounds good to me. But many audiophiles want and seek approval from others and in the beginning I was not that much different. I'm sure that is why clubs like that exisit. My system is a very personal to me including my music & have tried enough gear to realize that the very most important part of any system is the speakers. I can't put enough emphasis here. I have had audiophiles over to my house to demonstrate a preamp or power amp and some folks threw the money at me to buy it. I did however point out to the buyer that with different speakers it may not produce the same results.

Getting back to the subject at hand, I don't think that any system assembled will sound exactly like live music although some may come close and I'm sure that is what many audiophiles strive for but others in the end may prefer a more intimate venue and need only to please themselves.

Marco by the way, maybe we should all try some Grey Poupon just to see what all the fuss is about. I'm still using French's mustard.