what is the proper protocol

Buyer and seller come to agreement on price, buyer pays, seller sends package and it never arrives or arrives damaged. Seller should insure that it was shipped safely packaged and insured. Seller is responsible to file claim and to make good on refund. Time allowed is negotiable within reason between parties. If seller disagrees buyer should turn dispute over to paypal, credit card co., or post office (if p.o. money order). From my experience if buyer did not receive goods they will refund money to buyer regardless of insurance. Damaged goods are more complicated (as to shipping item back and who gets refund) but the end result will tend toward the same result of buyer receiving refund. Sellers insure your packages. Seems to be more of an Ebay problem cause of trying to save by not buying insurance. Especially on lower priced items. Think I got the basics right. I know it can be more involved. When in doubt use the golden rule. Most cultures have a version of it so it must be a pretty solid standard!

Does anyone actually bother to read the FAC on this site? It clearly states that the buyer must be paid immediately upon the loss of an item. Nhtran, you should not be selling on this site if you cannot bother to understand the rules of our community and abide by them. This is not a matter of interpretation at all, but a requirement of the use of this site.

I looked at the FAQ section, and I did find a section devoted to lost or damaged items.

The germain language reads:

The Seller should offer a refund to the buyer after filing a claim and or receiving the returned item, and then pursue a claim with the shipping company for reimbursement.

So, I suppose in the case of a lost item, the guidelines suggest that a Seller refund a payment once a claim has been filed with the shipper. In the case of a damaged item, the Seller can issue a refund once a claim has been filed, or once a claim has been filed AND the damaged item has been received back from the Buyer.

In any case, the Audiogon guidelines are just that...guidelines. I cannot find any language that states that they constitute binding terms of a contract.

There is a section entitled Resolving Disputes, in which the guiding principle to all transactions is stated as the honor system.

Audiogon members are expected to conduct business with the honor system in mind. All members in good standing have shown their integrity by registering, and following through with any commitments they have made. But we are all human, and mistakes and miscommunication can lead to disputes. If you find yourself in a situation where you and another member are at a disagreement, contact us. While we cannot promise a satisfactory resolution, we will try to contact both parties and help mediate the situation. Any illegal activities, breaking of a contract, or outright statements of falsehood should be reported to us immediately. Audiogon staff will cooperate with any law enforcement agencies, and at the least terminate the offender's membership.

With our 50 years of combined experience, we have found that most audiophiles are exceptionally honest, and trustworthy people. Perhaps this is a quirk that is necessary to be a true audio nut, or perhaps a camaraderie is felt between fellow audiophiles. Whatever the reason, we are extremely confident that members of the Audiogon community will behave in an honest manner, and be able to resolve any minor differences by themselves.

Furthermore, my experience with at least one audio manufacturer has been that the make-good was supplied by the manufacturer once they had received payment from the insurance claim. Therefore, this is what I use as my guide. I was patient. The manufacturer was courteous, and everyone was happy in the end.

Bottom line, buyers and sellers should work together as much as possible in these situations. Not every satisfactory outcome will follow the same template.

Tvad, with all due respect, I find the "I will do it because it was done to me." justification to be without merit. And no, the guidelines are not a contract but are requirements for the use of this site. In the Seller FAQ under "Problems" click on "If A Buyer Does Not Receive A Shipment", it says "In cases in which the shipping company has lost the item, the seller must offer a refund to the buyer immediately and then file his loss claim with the shipper." Note the use of the word "must". That is what we are required to do as sellers on this site.

07-23-06: Viridian
Tvad, I find the "I will do it because it was done to me." justification to be without merit.

That's your issue, not mine, but I respect your opinion. While I use my past experience as a guide, I also am quite open to working with a buyer to reach a workable solution to us both. I'm always open to compromise, and I hope my trading partners are as well.

In cases in which the shipping company has lost the item, the seller must offer a refund to the buyer immediately and then file his loss claim with the shipper.

The word offer follows the word must. I find this just as important, and I interpret it to mean that while a seller must offer a refund, a buyer has the option of declining to accept the refund until the item has been found or until the seller has been paid for his/her loss. Or, it opens the door to a number of other reasonable compromises along the spectrum...like partial payment with the balance paid upon the seller's receipt of the insurance payment, for example.

That is what we are required to do as sellers on this site.
Viridian (Threads | Answers)

Again, I view these quidelines as suggestions not edicts, but that's my interpretation. The reason I have this opinion is that when I registered on Audiogon four years ago, I am reasonably certain I did not have to agree to these guidelines as terms of use of the Audiogon website. Now, it's been a while since I registered. Perhaps my memory has faded. Some newer registrants might be of some help here.

Interestingly, we approach this issue from different angles, and yet we both have outstanding feedback (at least 50% of my feedback is as a seller). To me, that demonstrates that there is more than one correct method to achieve a successful outcome.