Can you correct nulls with acoustic treatments.


I have Magnepan 1.6's. After hearing a musical clarity I really liked in a listening session at someone else's house, I broke down and bought a Rat Shack SPL meter and dowloaded some test files. I wanted to see if it was the acoustics or the type of speakers and system that made the difference.

A brief testing showed a 65 to 80 hz., 5 or 6 db. bump (the drywall bump?) that I had expected. What I didn't expect was 10 to 15 hz. wide nulls (-10,-15,even -20 db.) at several other frequencies.

I tried moving speaker positioning and the frequency of the nulls moved but the pattern was basically the same.

Acoustic treatment to tame + nodes seems intuitive. Can you treat nulls or is this a different problem?

Would really appreciate your thoughts.

Jim S.

stilljd
I'm with Onhwy61....you probably have typical room bass boost. You need to tone down those bass bumps rather than boost 80 to 300 Hz.

Secondly, above 200 Hz...you are dealing with wavelengths of roughly 5 feet...don't expect any kind of smooth response here as movements of a couple of feet of the SPL meter will give you nulls when playing pure test frequencies. (for example quarter wavelength cancellations off the back wall behind the speakers is typically evident with a series of nulls from 40 up to 500 Hz depending on speaker placement)

See this link Quarter Wave Cancellations Explained

The above is why I have soffit mounted my speakers into a heavy braced wall cabinet. This is most important for larger three way full range speakers and is why you see soffit mounting of studio main speakers in almost all studios. (The difference is very audible as you can imagine by looking at the frequency response curves shown in the URL example I gave you above)

Finally, I suspect a 1 Hz pure single frequency test tone with an SPL meter is likely to lead to frustration unless you are an expert like Rives and know how to interprete it.

For example, imagine (in theory) that your speakers are perfect ( zero distortion ) then you will get enormous peaks and nulls with single pure frequency test tones (as the ONLY frequency in the room is exactly what you input to the speaker).

Alternatively, imagine your speakers are more normal or typical (with 50 % distortion in bass frequencies when played at louder SPL levels ) then you will get a beautifully smooth balanced SPL response when playing pure single frequency test tones (because not all the harmonic distortion will be affected by the room in the same way as the fundamental - and SPL meter will pick up the average)

How's that for counter-intuitive.....two different speakers placed in the same position in the same room and the better speaker SHOULD measure far far worse!

How's that for counter intuitive....an amplifier with higher amounts of harmonc distortion may actually sound more balanced compared to a perfect amplifier with zero distortion, as it is less ruthless on room modes.

All this is because nulls will be their very worst when you have pure single frequencies....

So be very careful interpreting 1 Hz pure frequency test tones! (It is unlikely that kind of purity is actually coming out of your speakers unless they are incredibly good and you have an amplifier with very low harmonic distortion)
Ok, I got it. To do a really serious analysis and correction, I am in way over my head and resources.

But, believe it or not, what everyone has generously posted makes sense and has helped my understanding. I just don't know enough to know how to make a direct quantum leap in results (it ain't gonna happen overnight). I do know that a little knowledge is dangerous, so I will go slow, keep studying, keep measuring, and keep experimenting. I will post the setbacks and breakthroughs.

Thanks and Best Regards to All,
Jim Still
Jim:

I like your attitude--and I think it's exactly right. You won't make that quantum leap overnight--but you can read, understand, try some things, and make progress over time. I wish everyone would deal with their room. Whether they hire a professional or take some sound advice (pun intended) and work through the issues themselves over time, the room is almost always the limiting factor in good sound.

I would recommend the book Alton Everest Master handbook of Acoustics. It's available through Amazon and is an excellent overview on the subject.
I had a deep null in mid to low bass right where I wanted to sit. Then I noticed that the bass would almost blow your hair back in other parts of the room. I made a series of bass traps and I wouldn't have believed anything could be so effective. It's still slightly peaky at certain frequencies but not bad. I'll probably get a digital eq eventually.

BTW, my listening room (built before I moved into the house) is of horrendous dimensions. Very close to 1 x 2 x 4.
Per Shadornes' reco I purchased Rebecca Pidgeon, The Raven. Shadorne is absolutely correct. On "Spanish Harlem", the bass sequence cleary shows intensely audible bumps. Dumm, BOOM, BOOM, - BOOM, BOOM, Dumm, - BOOM, Dumm, Dumm. It is not subtle, nor musically pleasant.

I have heard the BOOM and new it existed in the setup. I use the bass boost from the room nodes to alter (amplify) the lower-mid bass for some of the music I like. But taken as a single note, it really sounds horrible, bloated, and out of place.

Very enlightening. The Raven is pretty good music too.

Best Regards,
Jim Still