Shipping - Who's Resposible for Receipt of Item?

Based on the facts outlined in the original post, the seller's responsibility is fulfilled. If one desires absolute certainty of delivery, then a service that requires the signature of the recipient is mandatory.

I once shipped an item via USPS Priority Mail Insured. This service requires the signature of the recipient. The USPS tracking showed the item had been delivered, but the recipient had not received the item. It turned out the apartment manager signed for the item, and held it, but did not notify the renter that the item had arrived. It was against USPS rules that the apartment manager sign for the item. The USPS letter carrier screwed up. What are you going to do? Eventually, after a few harried emails, the recipient discovered the item in the manager's office.

Bottom line is that according to the original post, the sender's responsibility is complete. It's up to the recipient to agree to and pay for insured delivery with signature required. I always insure as part of a sales agreement that if a buyer chooses to use a shipping method that does not requires a signature, then the buyer agrees that my responsibility for the safe delivery ends when I transfer the item to the shipping company.

Actually, according to AudiogoN policy (I know, who cares?), it is still the shipper's responsibility until the buyer accepts the item is as described in the ad.
What's the difference between the shipper's liability if the package is lost or damaged in shipping?

The buyer is supposed to be able to open the box, inspect the item and try it out to make sure it works as stated in the ad. When he accepts it, then the shippers liabilty ends.

I agree with Tvad that signature service should be required. That at least would help track the package after delivery. It's not a perfect system though, as I've known my mailman to sign for my USPS packages.

Maybe the reason I defend the buyer is because this just happened to me for the first time. I've been involved in shipping damage issues before, who hasn't? I've never been part of a missing package before though.

The shipper sent it via UPS Ground. Sent me a tracking number. The tracking number says the package was delivered last Friday. I asked my wife and children, no one has seen this package. There was no signature required, so it was just dropped off. Who knows what happened? Was it stolen off my front porch? Did the driver drop it off at the wrong house? Who knows? All I know is my $2500 item is missing. Is the shipper's responsibility over? How do I know what was in the box? It could be a new scam for all I know, sending out phantom tracking numbers.

Look at it from the buyer's point of view.
The seller can recoup the insurance, the buyer cannot.
The seller could have the buyer's money and the insurance money. The buyer is at the seller's mercy.
Who's got the best chance of being screwed here?

I'll get off my soapbox now. Goodnight Gracie.

John

Let me get this straight. A seller ships an item as agreed with the buyer via a method that does not require a signature. Let's say UPS Ground. The seller uses a delivery confirmation/tracking service to verify the package has been delivered. The buyer says he never received the package. According to the shipping company, their obligation has been fulfilled, since they are not responsible for stolen or non received items once the parcel has been delivered to the shipping address. In this case, the seller cannot collect the insured amount because UPS' obligation has been fulfilled.

Audiogon's policy declares the seller is still responsible even though the seller has no recourse with the shipping company for reimbursement?

Baloney.

Audiogon can declare whatever policy they like. If a seller and buyer agree to terms of a shipping method, then they are obligated no further than the terms of their agreement and the terms of the service the shipping company provides.

This Audiogon policy is a paper tiger. It is unenforceable because it potentially contradicts the terms of commonly used shipping services, and because Audiogon's policy makers have not thoroughly examined the details of their policy, it is unreasonable.

Folks, if you want to guarantee your items are delivered and fully insured against damage loss and theft, then utilize a shipping method that requires the signature of the buyer/addressee (and NOT and agent of the addressee). Period.

John, I'm sorry for your situation and I hope it gets resolved somehow. For the rest of the readers, it should serve as a vivid lesson about what can happen with ship-and-drop delivery methods.

All these potential shipping problems can all be eliminated if the buyer and seller actually meet to complete the transaction. For a high value item (and I recognize that is entirely subjective) is it really unreasonable to travel 300 miles to pick up an item? If both parties are willing to travel then the range doubles. I live in Ann Arbor, MI and that puts anywhere from NYC, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Nashville and Washington D.C. within reach. It's not without its own problems, but it definitely avoids some of the shipping problems discussed in this thread.

Good luck getting your insurance refund from the post office. they deny EVERY claim. I had a similar problem where I shipped a set of high dollar interconnects. They were sent priority mail, insured with delivery confirmation and tracking.... but never arrived to the buyer.

I put a claim in with the post office who told me they would research it and after so many days I could make an insurance claim.

To make an insurance claim you have to send either your purchasing receipt for the item or some proof of value (catalog showing item, statement from a dealer etc). So I sent two or three printed web pages from dealers showing the item and it's cost new plus the paypal receipt from the buyer. The value new was something like 240$ and I was trying to get back $120 which is what I sold the item for, the amount I refunded to the buyer, and the amount I insured them for.

Post office denied my claim stating that the dates on the printouts I sent them were a later date than when the item was shipped (they were looking at the 'date printed' in the upper hand corner of the paper) and they claimed this meant I had purchased the item new again to replace what they lost and was trying to get my money back on that purchase. I'm not sure how they get $120 = $240??? or how they think a web page catalog printout = a new receipt.

Another friend bought an expensive set of brakes and the package was opened during transit and one brake roter and caliper were lost and he received a box with just the mounting hardware in it. Post office denied his claim as well.