life without audio dealers

Mrtennis:

if dealers were order takers and could obtain any product a customer wants without voicing an opinion, customers would be better off.

Audiokinesis:

So one of the roles I see dealers playing is assisting the audiophile in that journey of self-discovery

Now there are two opinions that are poles apart. It seems to me that the first one entirely omits the educational role of the honest and knowledgeable dealer. Honest meaning, among other things, honest to himself about any conflict of interest and willing to choose the customer's interest first.

Maybe such people don't exist outside my imagination but there are posts here that suggest the contrary.

If all a dealer does is take orders, and I am a newbie, I will never get the benefit of a better-informed opinion and I will just order anything. It could take decades for me to get a system I loved, if it ever happened at all. Along the way I might get discouraged enough to drop the whole idea.

So certainly, the hobby has a place for honest BAM dealers IMHO. I think that may be true of any field at all.

Above posts bring some valid points and are very controversial in the same time.

However question remains.......
Do we as "Audiophiles" need AUDIO DEALERS.

I am talking about all levels here....., skills and knowledge. Mrtennis, you and I (and many others) could probably do with out them. But some will have a very hard time .......especially those, who do not know what they want or what sounds good (to them). Those unable to setup that new turntable and cartridge. Those that use composite and S-Video cable to hook up their HD-display.....etc.

Even seasoned audiophiles can benefit from a GOOD dealer.
The only question is how many of those are out there?????
Not too many. And maybe we......or rather industry should try a little harder to bring that gap between us and them.....(or even better audiophiles and audiophile shops with ONE goal ......better music, service and long relationship) just a little closer.

I live in New York for the past 16 years and I have to say,
it is one of the worst places to be an audiophile.
Attitude, customer relations and care is hopeless.
It isn't surprising to hear stories of many that took their business to neighboring New Jersey or even Pennsylvania where some dealers actually know what this hobby is all about and understand your needs and/or concerns.
I personally rather drive for an hour or two then deal with ANY DEALER in N.Y.
It shows you how frustrating some of us get and why the general perception towards dealers is so negative.

There is a room for improvements.......I do believe so..YES.
But it takes two to TANGO.

Cheers

Mrtennis, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that we don't need someone else (like a dealer) to tell us what we like.

I'm not arguing that the dealer's role is to tell people what to like.

I'm arguing that the dealer's role is to provide people with the experience of discovering what they like by providing auditions. In cases where the person already has a pretty good idea of what they like, a conversation with a dealer experienced in that type of speaker or amplifier can help them narrow down which of several contenders would be the probable front-runner(s).

For the record, Mrtennis, I know of dealers that will recommend someone buy something they do not sell if in their opinion that something else would better meet the person's needs.

Duke
dealer/manufacturer

i see no evidence that trial and error without a dealer's assistance is any less effective than getting an opinion from an audio dealer.

only the consumer can decide his or her preferences. how does one learn? through listening. from a position of ignorance, one listens and then decides that a certain presentation is what he or she likes.

there are enought manufactureres who sell direct who can provide many of the services of the non-manufactryrer audio dealer.

if you must rely on a dealer, who would you trust, the manufacturer/retailer, or the retailer, regarding a product.
in addition, most direct sellers will allow you to return the component within a period of time.

even when dealers are present, consumers still end up with equipment they don't like. just look at audiogon.

so, until there is some evidence supporting the value of a dealer, i am not convinced that dealers are necessary.

when you think of the products that people buy, there are so many instances where all that is needed is the facts, rather than opinions. an example like wine buying comes to mind. if i am buying my first bottle of wine, and i want to buy a sweet wine, i can look on the internet and then order a sweet wine. i don't need any suggestions. after i have sampled enough wine, i will figure out what i need to do the next time i want to buy a bottle of wine.

why is it that in this hobby, the conventional wisdom suggests that consumers cannot educate themselves just by listening ?

That's well put, Duke. But my experience says that most people will never hear or care about "the difference" no matter how much exposure they get. It just isn't there for most people.

The Viet-Nam era, driven by drugs and the youth movement of the day, propelled widespread purchase of component audio. Later, during the 1980s, when tech stocks were causing widespread consumption of all things luxury, high end audio evolved as a separate category and money flowed. We are the sad remnant of those glory days.
Today, component audio and high end pretensions are passe. Many of us are in denial about this but those people are like Goethe's drunk on horseback. No matter how much they wave and yell and curse and gesticulate, the horse plods undeterred in whatever direction it chooses. And the current direction involves computer music servers and personal audio. New and better versions of the same old componentry will not redirect the horse. Dealers, graphs, reviewers -- all will struggle in vain. The die is cast and the end is in sight. It will probably never go away entirely but high end audio is in an irreversible decline. It's still fun though, if you are given to this sot of fun -- but too few are.