Another soundstage question


There are a couple of soundstage related threads running on the amp/preamp section and they reminded me of a question I’ve been meaning to ask without hijacking those threads. The speakers are Vandersteen 2Ci and the system along with their placement is giving me a real deep and relatively wide soundstage - but not much further to the sides, but I’d like the height of the soundstage be little higher. The speakers are on the sides of a bay window, about 10’ apart and with heavy drapes pulled on either side and about 2.5’ behind the speakers. Much lighter curtains cover the bay windows for privacy. In my seating position that is about 10’ away from each speaker the top of the soundstage is just about the top of the speakers, sort of like I’m sitting at the same level as the musicians. The depth is realistic but I think the height needs to higher to give a better feel for the height of the singer standing in the middle and the rest of the band scattered at different levels within the stage. So having said all this, is the soundstage height mostly a function of the electronics driving the speakers or its the size/shape of the speakers, e.g., speaker height, tilt, etc., the listening placement, or a combination of all of the above. Thanks.

128x128kalali

Showing 4 responses by geoffkait

What you really want is the soundstage height to be in line with so to speak the rest of the soundstage dimensions, I.e., the width and depth. In other words the soundstage should approximate a sphere and should ideally represent the venue space of the recording, with great depth, width and height. Not only that but as the system improves you should notice an ever expanding sphere that is the soundstage. As the resolution gets better the subtle soundstage queues such as echo and reverberant decay become more apparent, as well as transparency, coherence, air, etc. If you have to resort to toe-in or tilt-up you’re a long long way from Tipperary. Get the soundstage right and the parameters like tone and detail will follow.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The only way to find the *absolute* best locations for the speakers so as to get the very best soundstage - all things being equal - is to use the out of phase track on the XLO Test CD. When the sound on that track is the most diffuse, i.e., when the sound is coming at you from all around the room, from no particular direction. Then you will achieve the best sound (all things being equal) including soundstage, when the sound in IN PHASE. Attempts to obtain correct speaker locations by ear are less effective, it’s like trying to solve X simultaneous equations in X+N unknowns. the best you can usually do by ear is find local maximums.

Another tip: most speakers are too far apart. It's an old wives' tale oft told that speakers should be in an equilateral triangle and or toed in for best soundstage. That’s part of the problem with trying to get a soundstage. The middle of the soundstage goes MIA when the speakers are too far apart. Room treatments go a Long Way towards reinforcing the illusion of the sound coming at you from all around the room on the XLO out of phase track.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - soundstage height is just another dimension of the spherical 3 dimensional soundstage. The dimensions of that soundstage in a particular system is a function of how much INFORMATION that system can extract from the recording. Which of course means everything matters, from absolute speaker placement, but not toe in or tilt of speakers, correct direction of cabling and fuses, vibration isolation, room acoustics, RFI/EMI and all the other issues that contribute to sound quality, including those unmentionable things that many folks don’t wish to acknowledge, the things that aren’t directed associated with the speakers, the electronics, cables, the house power, vibration or RFI/EMI. You know, things that go BUMP in the night. 😧 In any case the better the resolution you can acheive the larger the ever expanding sphere of the soundstage will be, including height.

When you control the mail you control... IN-FOR-MA-TION. - Newman

I can certainly understand that certain very tall speakers with high mounted tweeters might have to be tilted downward. But this certainly would not be the general rule for most speakers. As I oft remark the speaker set up track on the XLO Test CD is the scientific way to obtain the best soundstage and the best sound. The old trial and error method of move a little, listen a little is waaay out of date. Another reason soundstage is not fully developed or MIA is simply because the speakers are too far apart. Why do audiophiles often surmise that to get a wide deep soundstage the speakers must be placed far apart and toed in toward the listener? 🙄