Audio-Technica ART 7

@dgarretson 

I can’t imagine other defects that might require exercise of warranty.

Grey market cartridges with fake serial numbers are not supported by the manufacturers when it comes to retip, refurbishing. The manufacturer support their official distributors. 

@dgarretson i don’t mind buying even used, but the purists should know that official retip or any support is impossible if the manufacturer detect grey market product.

@lewm

So 2juki is not an authorized AT dealer, or so I gather. Where then would he source his product? Does he obliterate serial numbers?

He’s not an authorized dealer of anything, his prices are lower than recommended prices and nearly all his stock is a grey market produsts. Fake serian numbers, no support from the manufacturer. I’ve been told by a very well known US distributor, i have checked a serial number of my cartridge, i didn’t tell the distributor where i’ve bought my cartridge, but he noticed fake serial number and suggested it’s from 2juki, he was right. Some manufacturers are mad on him!  

It’s not necessary means that his stuff is defective, many buyers are happy, but not the manufacturers and distributors. The trade off of his low price is no warranty, no support, no service, nothing which every buyer can get from official distributor and manufacturer.

@lewm

2juki is from Hong Kong, not from Japan as your trustworthy seller/shop in Akihabara. First thing the manufacturer will check is the serial number of the product, what is the reason for them to support grey market ebay dealers and cartridges with fake serial numbers if they have official distributors to support in each country?

Official distributors suffering from the low ball offers on ebay for grey market cartridges. 

Every problem can be solved via paypal claim or ebay. At least broken items will be returned for full refund (a golden rule of ebay/paypal policy).

@rauliruegas

2juki, grey market?. No, I dfon’t thuink so and there is no rpove about not even from chakster because he said some one told him.

Anyone can do the same, if you bought something from 2juki then send your serial number to the manufacturer or to the distributor and ask, i bought my $3500 cartridge from him, so i know what i’m talking about. Fake serial numbers, grey market item not recognized even by the manufacturer who produced the item, the source is unknown, but everybody knows how it works. "Someone who told me " is one of the most respected distributor in the USA, but i won’t tell everything in public, it’s confidential. You should know that grey marked dealers are not supported by the manufacturers, a cartridge designer will not touch the item with fake serial number purchased from the "grey market dealer" for the price which is lower than official distibutor’s price. Those grey dealers kills the distribution at some point.

We have to remember that chakster is an audio seller and 2juki is a hard competition for him.

Raul, you’d better stop this bullshit!
As a "seller" i have only 6 feedbacks on ukaudiomart and about 25 feedbacks on ebay for years! I do sell my personal items or spares that i’ve been using myself like everyone in community. 90% of my ebay feedbacks is for the item i’ve bought (not for what i sold). I don’t have hidden accounts. There is no "competition" for me with the professional sellers.

So please don’t mix together me and a professional grey market ebay seller with various accounts as 2juki (11182 feedbacks), 2juki-cartridge (1618 feedbacks) who’s selling thousands of new unopened items.

I’m telling the truth here, the most expensive japanese cartridges from him comes with fake serial numbers to make it impossible to track down where it comes from even for the manufacturer.

I wonder that you support grey market dealers and not the manufacturers and their official distributors.

I would rather buy a used original cartridge from a fellow audiophiles who’s bought them from the official distributor (when it comes to today’s cartridges). In this case a seller can tell me where he’s got it from and maybe the distributor still can service this original cartridge for me. But the fake serial number is a red flag for the distributor and manufacturer, they will kick you off back to your grey market seller to service your cartridge, they will never touch it! It’s reasonable in my opinion. It’s a small world!

@melm @tooblue

I don’t understand where this badmouthing BS comes from. IMO we need the 2jukis of this world to make this expensive hobby of ours just a bit more affordable.

You don’t understand? Any good distributor can do much more for the buyer than grey market dealer, you should learn it somehow. Make a good relationships with the official distributor, high-end is hard to sell nowadays, you can get discounts from the distributors instead of the grey market dealers. The manufacturer will always be on the distributor’s side. This is how it works. I don’t think you will buy a stolen products just because it’s cheaper? It’s not exacly the same, but the principle is very similar, do you think grey market makes your life better?

What would you do with grey market cartridge when you need a re-tip or re-furbishing? Ending up with aftermarket service to get the cart back with a different specs, different materials, nothing like the original?

Or do you want to sell it to somebody else before it dies?

Or maybe you prefer the service from the cartridge designer who originally made and voiced this cartridge? The last option is impossible for the grey market products. If you have a truly high-end cartridge you need this option after 2000 hrs of paytime. Your choice. 

@lewm How is your ART-7 competes with Ortofon MC2000 ?

For decades Raul was so enthusiastic about high compliance Ortofon MC2000 LOMC here on audiogon, it was probably long time before he sold his soul to digital.

As the renegade of your ex belowed Moving Magnets, how would you rate MC2000 today compared to the AT ART series @rauliruegas ?

@rauliruegas

... certainly not help any one of us.

2juki will not help you either

I’m sure you’re completey missed my point, as i said i bought very expensive cartridge from 2juki myself based on his 100% positive feedbacks on ebay, but the problem comes much later, nor when you leave a feedback for a cartridge (everything was as described), but a year or more later on when you have to re-tip the cartridge or, in worst case, to re-furbish it.

And in this case the manufacturer or his distributor will check the serial number at the end of the day to find out it’s a grey market unit, not the original serial number, or the serial number that belongs to a very old and completely different model. Then you understand what is a trade off - your very best expensive high-end cartridge is not supported by the designed (manufacturer) and the distributor. Because they are teamed up together against a grey market sellers. If you’re fine with it - then go and buy from 2juki.

If you want forever warranty and amazing service then ALWAYS buy from the official distributors. I can not speak about all cartridges, but i’m talking about very best LOMC.

Also everyone should understand, and i believe they do understand, that 2juki just sell you cartridge once (you can send it back only once, if it’s not as described), but support and service is not his business, he’s just a grey market seller with lowered price for quick sale - that’s it.

The distributor of the same cartridge in your country, luckily i’ve got in tough with very nice distributor (not even in my country), will do the best to treat you right. Trade-in or upgrade is always better. Sometime the distributors offers something that you can’t expect, the discount is also possible. The difference is price is not that much, but you’re dealing with official distributors, not a cheaters.

Grey market dealers are not cheating you directly, they are cheating the manufacturers and distributors, they are in fact manipulates with serial numbers, but people support the cheaters buyin from them. You can discuss 2juki case with any distributor of the products he’s selling. It’s all about sales morality !!!

P.S. Maybe it’s not important for people who don’t mind to send any cartridge to SoundSmith for re-tip or even to install completely different cantilever to make their original cartridge way different (they always think it’s only getting better for some reason).

If your cartridge is not supported by the original manufacturer it’s very bad (imo)
Even used carts are supported by the manufacturer if they are from the valid source, so what’s the point to buy new from gray market if you can’t use the manufacturer/designed once you’ve bought grey market unit? Where is the logic ? Even lightly used cart from the distributor (they do trade in, so they can offer used with huge discount) is better than new from grey market dealer if you think a bit about future.

2juki also sells vintage gear - no problem with that, this is honest business.

@lewm 

Chakster, It seems other guys here, who perhaps live in different countries, are saying they receive unopened factory containers when they order from 2juki, suggesting there was no possibility that 2juki tampered with serial numbers, let alone added a serial number from a different product.

I don't care what they said, any box can be opened and then sealed with plastic again, look at your ZYX cartridge! The way the serial number stamped on it and the way the serial stated in the manual. Everything can be opened and sealed again when it comes to $3-5k cartridges.

Unfortunately the manufacturer of the very high priced high-end products (cartridges) doesn't care too much about prints, boxes, sealing materials. Everything can be printed, sealed by anyone at home. He's not making cartridges at his garage for sure (they are original), but his grey market product is masked to hide his source. The manufacturer will close the distributor who's selling overstock to grey marked dealers. 

Averyone have to read the message on Robyn Wayatt's site: 
http://www.robyattaudio.com/ below is a quote: 

""Any Miyajima products purchased from EBay from Hong Kong carry NO USA warranty, or support. Any type of repair or re-tip will not be honored by Robyatt Audio, or Miyajima-Labs.

If you purchase a grey market Miyajima Labs product, if and when it fails, its junk- NO repair."" 

The manufacturers and distributors are worried about it, do you think they have no reason for that ? Then why the biggest distributors of Ortofon, Miyajima, ZYX ... in USA are so concerned that even the cartridge designers themselfs will refuse the grey market cartridges?

Some cheaters selling overstock to grey market dealer to get rid of them for very low price, all they need is to hide the real serial numbers! And thast's what they do. 

At the same time some people prefer to buy from cheaters on grey market ignoring the fact that manufacturers of those carts are not happy about the situation and simply do not service them! 

We have people like Robyn Wayatt in USA who can give any buyer his Miyajima on trial for full refund! It's absolutely amazing offer. We have Mehran at RosaSound who's the greatest dealer and very nice person, he always announce discounts on his site, special offers for trade-in stuff etc. I could mention great dealers in Europe as well. If someone will buy anything from them they will get full support forever. I have no bias, i'm not in USA and i have no busines relation with any of them. As a buyer i have spoken with various dealers, customer support by the dealer and service by the manufacturer are two reason why we want to buy from official distributors (instead of grey market dealers). 

Never tried the ART-7, but my old ART-2000 was amazing cartridge. 

@rauliruegas the OP said "I was in love with the AT OC9 III sound..." and the ART-2000 is next one what comes to mind, i believe the ART-7 could be better, but the ART-2000 was in fact an amazing all-rounder cartridge, but the MM was better, so you are welcome to share my love to AT-ML170   

the only problem that 2juki sells a grey market products and all the official distributors hates him, some of the manufacturers also have no idea where he's got his cartridges from and there is NO warranty on the grey market units from him, the guy also manipulates with serial numbers. I know it for sure as we discussed the issue with some well known distributor and manufacturer. People who are looking for official warranty should never buy anything from 2juki. If it's Audio-Technica products then you can't send it to AT or AT's distributors for service, they can easily check by serial numbers.