DENAFRIPS DAC ---- Owner Impressions, Feedback, General Discussion, Questions and more....

^^ Great review!
IMO it speaks to why the Terminator DAC can work so well in a warmish tube based system or with warmish speakers.

Denafrips Terminator Review by Jay Luong // Audio Bacon

https://audiobacon.net/2019/02/28/denafrips-terminator-review/

Winner for: "High-value true-balanced pre /power combo"

Very weak on giving any specs for the amp, even on the Denafrips website. Doesn’t instill much confidence .

No input impedance
No output impedance or damping factor
No 4ohm wattage ability or 2ohm, ect ect ect.

Can’t tell from this if it’s a pussy that can only drive easy load speaker or a lion that could drive say Wilson’s.

Cheers George

6Moons DENAFRIPS Hestia preamp and Hyperion power amp... Blue Moon Award Winner for: "High-value true-balanced pre /power combo"

Review (Srajan Ebaen): 

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/denafrips2/

Holiday News:

"The HESTIA and HYPERION are DENAFRIPS advanced Pre & Power amplifier. The perfect companion of the well-regarded DENAFRIPS DAC family.

​

The HESTIA and HYPERION are fully developed in-house, the entire R&D process took a good 1 year duration to complete.

It has been long awaited. How does it sound? You asked?

It shares the same DENAFRIPS house-sound: Musical, Emotional, Dynamic, and High Resolution."

- via Vinshine Audio

https://www.denafrips.com/hestia-hyperion

Seems like the Venus product is a combination of a Terminator DAC front end with a rewired Terminator face plate put into a Pontus chassis case with a Pontus power supply. The Terminator has 2 more I2S inputs than the Pontus/Venus. The Pontus/Venus share a common weight of 8.5kG and common S/N ratio and dynamic range, whereas the Terminator has a weight of 19kG and better S/N ratio and dynamic range specs. Terminator seems to have a better chassis and far beefier P/S.

And why the company opted to use the word “Reserval” instead of “Phase” for the Pontus/Venus face plates is a mystery. 

Review of the Denafrips Pontus DAC. Positive Feedback // John Zurek

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/denafrips-pontus-dac/

smodtactical
  I am thinking either R2R7HE or Terminator. Any opinions?

Terminator has proven itself in many forums, and up against the much more expensive PS Audio here's a video on the three way shootout.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/253642-denafrips-terminator-3-dac-shootout-video/
Where the Audio GD  R2R7HE is quite new, and if looking at the guts is any indication, it "could" be a rip snorter.
 https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/254028-another-audio-gd-r2r-dac-the-r2r-7he/

Cheers George

I have been using a Denafrips Terminator for a few months now and to say I am pleased is an understatement.

Up until I bought the Denafrips, I was using a Metrum Octave Mk II R2R DAC and I liked it but it was the weak link in my system. It was the least expensive piece, even my speaker cables cost more, so it wasn't up to the level of the rest of my system. In my quest for a new DAC a Denafrips came up for sale and it was a few hours away and the reviews were good so I went and purchased it. It wasn't possible to audition so I went on faith.

Brought it home and hooked it up and the difference between the Metrum was night and day. To me, the music just opened up, it was good before but now I knew I could never go back. To be fair the price difference between the DAC's is at least three fold if not more. It was at this point where I finally could say I was finished the search for audio equipment. Truly I am done.

Others have described the sound of this DAC in more detail and I am not one of those guys that can do that. It either sounds right or it doesn't. I don't need hours to make that determination. The Terminator was one of those pieces that just sounded right.

For those who are interest my system is as follows: Aurender N100H music server, Denafrips Terminator, Herron Line Stage, Herron Mono Blocks, Tetra 606 speakers. Cabling and power cords by Audio Sensibility Statement series, TEO Game Changer IC's and Audio Quest Cinnamon USB. I also use Audio Points under my speakers. Argentum Acoustic Power Bar and Hubble receptacle. Focal Elear headphones and Lehmann Audio headphone amplifier. 

@smodtactical  if within your budget, why not consider Marantz SA-10 which has built-in, good quality headphone amp? It’s a reference-class CD/SACD player with USB (Type A and B) and SPDIF inputs. You need to read more about SA-10 DAC-less conversion. It’s hard for me to go back to Terminator after listening to SA-10. I still have both.

I have an HD800S, Auteur and Atticus, I am getting HE9 and need a DAC to pair. I want end game and not to upgrade again.

I am thinking either R2R7HE or Terminator. Any opinions?

Also anyone compare terminator to DAVE ?

canibefrank , if cost is a concern give the Denafrips Pontus a listen. It's head and shoulders above you're other choice. There are no slouches in the Denafrips line. I own the Pontus and have no complaints.

@canibefrank  You are looking at two very different units with respect to price, functionality, utilization, sound signature/performance, etc.

If price is a driver, then consider one of the other Denafrips DACs.

It really depends on what you are looking for and how each DAC fits those goals. All the best.

tell me oh wise goners
should i get an RME ADI 2 DAC or a Terminator?
i wanna rock, blues, pop music

Yes. One can only (fully) power down by removing the power cord.

I put it in 'Standby' every night and it remains so for about 8 hours. It comes back to 'performance' fairly quickly. I usually start listening about a half hour after the Terminator and my T+A amp are back on.

@anwar
So the front power button is just ‘standby’? I wasn’t talking about unplugging the unit.
thanks

A couple of days is not enough.  After about 2 months, I heard no more improvement.  Please don't remove the AC power but you can put the Terminator on standby.  

Has anyone heard the Terminator sound better after being on for more than a couple days? 
I recently heard it for a number of days and thought I noticed better sound by a tangible margin after a few days from it’s last turn on. 

Very good comparative review (between DACs) by Austinbob // at Computer Audiophile, with his current installment focused on the Terminator:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/my-quest-for-a-new-dac-part-3-denafrips-terminator-r74...

@yyzsantabarbara   A Sonore I2S streamer would be really cool.

Currently, with USB into the Terminator via the Sonore Signature Rendu SE ... my system performance (for me) is exquisite. There are a number of factors that have contributed to this. The SR PowerCell 12 SE has done wonders across the system and the recent addition of the ethernet bridged Small Green Computer Server has also elevated performance.

Mentioning this because, even without going to I2S, the Terminator continues to scale upwards.

@david_ten Thanks for the info. I also do not want to do any conversions from USB to I2S. I was hoping for something that did Ethernet-to-I2S directly. Maybe the folks at Sonare read this and come up with a new Rendu offering? I am going to email them today.

For those that may not know, there is a robust Facebook group for the Terminator. It's a great site to ask questions, especially if you frame them in Italian. : )

@yyzsantabarbara   Reach out to Alvin, who will be able to share the various I2S components paired with the Terminator. He'll also be able to provide the pin settings (should adjustments be required).

My personal preference would be to go USB into the Terminator OVER inserting an I2S convertor into the chain. For me, this defeats the purpose. I'd choose I2S direct only.

The other reason is around cabling. (Offhand, I don't recall where you fall with respect to cables) but there are far more options, and Quality USB options, than with I2S.

@saleh84  Thanks for your wonderful write-up and sharing your impressions of the Terminator, etc. Very cool!

I just spent an hour reading this thread, instead of working. I am interested in how people would connect the DT to a music server via the 12S connection. 

In my current rig I have a powerful desktop computer running ROON, my music server. I send the music bits via Ethernet to my Sonare microRendu and from there, via a USB cable, to my Benchmark DAC3L. This same approach would work for the DT via USB. 

If I wanted to add the DT to my system, how would I connect the DT via I2S cable? Is there anything that takes Ethernet music bits and converts to an I2S format that the DT understands?

@lalitk ,
its a studio grade AES cable that I'm using atm tbh. I've experienced with Gotham cable first, then the same guy who built my power amps sent sent me a german AES cable he terminated himself, also "studio" grade. both sound almost similar but I sensed more openness and slightly more controlled bass while using the German made cable, so I kept it.
I have tried an "audiophile" AES cable in my system (800 USD worth), it did sound a bit different, tonality wise but i couldn't tell which I do prefer even after experimenting for days. so I simply I sent it back. I'm certain different cables do sound different - even digital ones. but does more expensive always equal better? I don't think so. placebo plays a huge role. also those crazy price tags for cables makes us feel they are something to look up to even before we listen.
I have also tried some audiophile expensive analog interconnects from the same brand (2 pairs of XLR, worth 2000+ USD) vs my current Pioneer reference pair (roughly 270 USD for both - awesome XLR btw), and the difference was shockingly negligible. is such 1-2% enhancement worth such price difference? I think this money should be spent on a better component that makes a serious difference, such as a DAC, sever, Preamp, etc. sorry for such long answer but I could not resist to write down my view on cables :)))
@anwar 
I have been told that around 1000 hours the terminator should be fully broken in, but its possible that more hours would make things even better, I guess time would tell :)
with Aurender N10 via AES, only DSD64 is possible (DoP), due to bandwidth limitation of the AES cable. Aurender N10 is capable of playing native DSD up to DSD128, via USB, but by doing that you skip the n10's OCXO clock which is not recommended.
the Denafrips terminator can handle up to DSD256, via USB from a capable source. what I learned, its not the size of the DSD file, its the source which is playing it what really matters. DSD64 will sound better out of N10 via AES (or any of the n10's spdif out in general) vs DSD256 from a noisy laptop via USB.
some DACs accept twin AES input, like some DCS Dacs. with Aurender W20, which has dual AES out, with such setup you can play up to DSD128 (DoP) as each channel has the whole bandwidth of one AES cable. I was wondering out of curiosity if the terminator has the same capability, but these two AES inputs are simply for two different sources. in addition to that, I honestly don't see myself getting a 17k USD Aurender W20, like ever! its too expensive for a "source". but who knows :) 
in my humble opinion, DSD64 played from Aurender n10 to Terminator via AES sounds amazing to my ears, I cant imagine anything could sound better. but I have not heard many other high end server/dacs combos, so that statement is subjective. however I can say, there was no sharpness/ brightness that I heard its an attribute of DSD64 is present by any means... just bags of detail, a magical holographic presentation, and an expansive, huge sound stage with pinpoint accuracy. decent CD rips sound almost equally good. Tidal Steaming (depending on how good the recording is) sound very good as well! whatever you through at this combo, it sounds fantastic :)

It's a worthwhile 20 minutes as he offers a balanced view of his opinion of the sound of the 4 DACs he compared letting you decide on your own which suits your taste

@reggy John Darko compares the Terminator and the Yggdrasil (Analog 2).

Video Review of the Denafrips Terminator from John Darko (20 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGmD6j8fC0&feature=player_embedded

Truly a thorough video review of the Terminator. Should provide those new to Denafrips / Terminator great insight into the product.

(Providing the link again since we are at the top of the page)

Darko on the Denafrips Terminator:

https://darko.audio/2018/09/a-short-film-about-the-denafrips-terminator-dac/

Video Review from John Darko (20 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tGmD6j8fC0&feature=player_embedded

Saleh, you should wait a bit longer before Terminator really sounds good, from my own experience around 2000 hours.  Are you only playing ripped CDs?  What about ripped SACD in DSF or songs purchased online in DSD 2x format, does it work through AES?

@limniscate , I can't wait to hear your impressions of the upgraded Yggy 2 to the Terminator. I have the Ares, and I can readily be impressed my the emotion and musicality. That aside, and as engaging and nice it sounds, it still is lacking in the microdynamics and overall technicalities  I believe, and can be largely mistaken as great sounding when the neutral landscape of all the music is tilted towards the emotional and musical aspect when I play over my speakers. 

I am curious to see how much better the Terminator is, and whether people really know what they are talking about when they say it is that good. I'm sure it sounds really nice however are we missing some of the microdetails and subtleties when compared to a bit perfect Yggy? 

Please let me know your impressions for your enjoyments, as well as the technical performance compared to the Terminator when you get it.  

Thanks,

Reggy.

@saleh84,

Congratulations on your purchase and thank you for posting your feedback on Terminator. I don’t own the Terminator but I can certainly echo your positive experience with N10. It’s worth every penny. 

May I know what brand of AES/EBU Cable you’re using?

Glad to hear you’re enjoying your system. 

It’s been almost three weeks now since I have received my Denafrips Terminator in black, from Alvin at Vinshine Audio, Singapore. They are the sole distributer of Denafrips, in order to keep the prices lower for us, consumers. I like the idea that a dealer wont get 50% margin for being in between!

My experience started with Extreme care from Alvin the moment I started asking him questions about the DAC and the lineup. I read almost everything related on the web, but I had few questions still. he was very responsive, and extremely helpful. With a product that has such amazing reviews, he didn’t need to be, But he was! Even after I made the purchase and he has got the money, he kept checking with me till the Denafrips was at my door step, delivered by DHL in two days! (the cost of which is included in the price, and I bet you it ain’t cheap at 22kg that this monster of a DAC and its double thick cartoon box measure up to.

With little struggle as I was alone at home, I managed to place the 19 kg Terminator on my rack. Connected my Aurender N10 to it via AES 1 input. the terminator actually has two AES inputs, but unfortunately, they can’t work together for higher bandwidth when connected to a streamer like Aurender W20 by multiple AES cable, one for each channel, enabling DSD128 over DoP. Maybe a future update/upgrade Denafrips?

My setup - in case you were curious, consist of an Aurender N10 – AES – Denafrips terminator (previously questyle CMA600i with built in balanced Preamp via coax) – XLR - temporary preamp (custom one on the way) –XLR - fully balanced custom monoblocks power amps (200 watts class A, then 300 watts class AB, total 500 watts @ 8 ohm) - acoustic zen satori speaker cables to a pair of Wilson Sabrinas standing on isoacoustics gaia ii isolation feet, powering all this a custom power conditioner.

Being frankly honest, the way it sounded straight out of box, I was not impressed much. It was confined, a bit harsh. it didn’t sound that great, Especially the bass. It was kind of loose and accentuated. But I didn’t panic at all. A friend of mine does have its little brother (not so little!), the Venus, which I was impressed by it performance and tonality. He told me such true R2R DACs require hundreds of playback hours to break in and shine. I’ve also read multiple threads about that. so, I listened for like an hour, let it play then came back to it the next day. In 24 hours, that slight harshness was gone, and the sound has quiet improved to an “okay” listenable SQ. Excuse the lack of description, as I’m no expert in Audiophile terms, I’m not a reviewer by any means. I’m just someone who enjoys High end audio. The better the sound the more joy I get. That makes me an audiophile minus the knowledge of describing in words how things sound. I will try my best but I can’t promise you much!

Over the coming days/weeks, the DAC was on with a signal passing through all the time. when I'm not listening, I will just power off my monoblocks while keeping a long music playlist on repeat. By about 300 hours, I could say the SQ became truly impressive. it was a day by day improvement sort of, but I could sense it. Mids became the best I have ever heard, tube like mids. Highs are so detailed but never harsh/annoying. Bass has tightened up and its just of the right amount, Never covering up lower mids as it was slightly doing so earlier. I have many friends who had a listen when it was a day or two in. coming again after a couple of weeks, not listening to it in between, knowing that nothing has been added or removed from my system, they could not believe what they heard! We did compare to many other DACs (not R2R, but what we had in hand. And none did cost as much to be honest) but none was able to keep up. What are my observations about the sound at this point? Well;

it sounded so rich and detailed even at low volume, which is a first to me. I used to crank my system volume up to hear all the little details and to get a large sound stage. Well, No more!! The sound stage also doesn’t collapse at lower volume. Vocals are warm, magical, focused and floating at the same height in the middle of my expanded sound stage. instruments are layered across with unbelievable separation. regarding tonality, I can say this DAC is slightly on the Dark/Warm side but just a notch. The PERFECT amount of warmth. If a recording was bright, it will still sound bright anyway but slightly less bright. So its not an extremely warm and “boring” kind of sound by any means. And with this slight warmth, there is a ton of details and dynamics! How could these opposites be found together is mind blowing. The person who has calibrated the sound on this beast is certainly someone who knows what to do exactly. A true expert.

I have been told the Denafrips Terminator really shines and “opens up” by 1000 hours. That would be towards the end of September 2018 for my unit. I truly can’t believe anything could sound better than how it sounds now!! I look forward to witnessing further improvements which I will write again about, if proved to be true and worth noting.

I have done a fair amount of research before I pulled the trigger on this one. Some reviews claimed that other 20k USD DACs are slightly better. But I ain’t crazy, nor I have the money to buy a DAC that cost as much, just cause its better just a little. The Denafrips Terminator at its price point is probably the highest Value ever for an End game DAC without totally wrecking your bank account. Its not cheap, yes, but its Priced fairly for a flagship in a world where audio companies put on crazy margins, just cause audiophiles are willing to pay. I personally believe in the law of diminishing returns. And I never aim for that last 2-3% improvement that would cost me an arm and a leg. With this DAC I was convinced that I’ve got the most bang of my hard-earned bucks. But that is my own opinion for you to consider. I have never wrote a review before, like ever, and I don’t dare to call this write up a review – even a mini one. Its just a shout out to anyone out there who is interested, curious but still skeptical. I assure you I'm more skeptical in general about anything more than you. I do not believe many of the audiophile world myths and I’m extremely careful of snake oil while exploring the horizons of this costly but amazing hobby. I can say in confidence, If you are searching for an end game DAC, then search no more. Buy a Denafrips terminator today. then have a some faith until it breaks in at least initially for 300 hours. You can thank me after for this recommendation!

P.S. I do also highly recommend Aurender N10 server. This is thing is Magic, Provided you take its output via AES (Coax is fine but AES is way better). Forget all about USB cables even the N10 a USB out. You need your signal to pass through the N10’s OCXO clock, USB out doesn’t as it has a different protocol. Your jaws will drop of how heavenly this combination sound. I initially thought the N10 is way expensive compared to the N100h, its almost 3 times the N100h price. but that clock inside the N10 does wonders and its worth every penny. A friend of mine who bought the N100h at the same time, is currently trading it in for an N10 himself. Truly, A combo of Aurender N10 and Denafrips Terminator is the best thing I have heard to date, and I have lots of audiophile friends who has been in this hobby for years, I did listen to all of their setups. sure a great turn table and a good record will beat this combo, but the main advantage is it opens a world of convenience/savings for you without a noticeable compromise! If you thought earlier Tidal doesn’t sound good vs CDs or CD reps, even DSD, such a setup will make you rethink everything totally. and don't get me started on how good WAV files from CD rips, stored on the N10 internal storage sound like!! it did actually beat a physical CD player, playing the same track from CD. I know now that such a great clock is not just about eliminating jitter, but a whole lot more. its a holographic presentation that you will only understand if you get to listen. I can tell you with extreme confidence, it’s your laptop and USB cable that is hindering your “computer” based audio listening experience. You need a good source, the N10 (or equal), a great analog sounding DAC, the Denafrips Terminator (or equal, but where to find an equal at same price point?).

I have been happily terminated myself! Maybe its your turn next Happy listening everybody!

Saleh

I've listened to the Terminator in two systems and against several DACs.  I definitely prefer it to my Yggy Analog1 in my system but am sending my Yggy to be upgraded to Analog2 next week.  I definitely preferred the Ayre QX-8 to it in my friend's headphone system (Sennheiser 800 with Cavalli Liquid amp).  The Terminator sounded tilted to me instead of neutral.

My system: Magnepan 3.7i, Audio Research Ref6, Hegel H30, Innuos SE, Mutec Ref10, SOtM tX-USB Ultra, dX-USB Ultra.  Tests were done with AES on Yggy and Terminator.

@david_ten   thanks. My system is described here: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/2598 even though the pictures are outdated. It starts with Torus AVR30 wall mount. Power cables either Furutech or Supra. All IC XLR. 3 x 1.5m Organic Cable plus 2 x DIY DH Labs Silver Sonic BL-1 used between sources to preamp. But for comparison of SA-10 and Terminator, Organic Cable XLR were used. Preamp is semi-DIY fully balanced pure silver passive autoformer using components from John Chapman. The output goes into Bryston 10B-SUB active crossover, then to my amp and JL f113 subs. 2 x DIY XLR interconnect (Swiss-made Audio Consulting 0.5mm pure silver solid core 0.5mm internal dia with cotton sleeving) used from preamp to 10B and 10B to MC452. The internal hook-up wires inside the DIY passive preamp are also Audio Consulting silver wires.

@anwar Can you share what the specific chains for each of your ’systems,’ inclusive of cabling, are? Thanks.

Congrats on your Marantz SA-10!!!

I had the Terminator for about 4 months. As it goes through the break-in process, the sound gets better and better. Beyond 2000 hours of use, it sounds very good, sometimes better than vinyl.

But today I had the biggest ’aha’ moment in my hifi journey. After 3-week wait, I received my Marantz SA-10, a CD/SACD player with USB Audio, USB flash drive, and coax inputs, can be used as DAC even thought it does not have a conventional DAC (all signals upscaled to DSD 4x and sent directly to analog output stage with filters). Wow, out of the box, it terminated my Terminator and vinyl rigs. The SA-10 costs about 1.5x of Terminator, but the sound difference is a lot more than that. Each of them (Terminator and SA-10) costs less than my AR phono stage.

When my SA-10 is fully broken in, I will share my impression.

Thanks for clarifying, @geekee  

You may want to ask in the Singxer / Raspberry Pi threads on Computer Audiophile.

Great to hear Pi direct is working fine!

Thanks David! 

Problem is not the Terminator. Not sure if it's a problem but the pi 3b set up has to be DSD(dop) for the Terminator to recognize as DSD. Set at DSD Direct (native) the SU-1 unit's led just pcm and the same with the dac as well. Don't want to start a debate dsd direct vs. dop but first impression the SU-1 is not that "smart". 

Just a side note, pi set output at dsd direct and usb cable directly to the terminator not using the SU1, the dac recognize up to dsd256 no problem
 

@geekee  If you haven't already done so, take a look at the Manual, page 5. I've linked the manual here:

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/4b933e_81b73a51d21a4814800733cd8bbb0e70.pdf

Otherwise, check with Alvin.

Congratulations, by the way!!! Looking forward to hearing how it all works out.

Using a Raspberry Pi 3B as player output

Hi David_ten,
Got it into the house together with Singxzer SU-1 (512DSD version). Thanks! The workmanship is top notch and the heft is like a decent power amp :) 
However, can't seem to get the SU-1 i2s working properly with the dac. Inside the SU-1 came with a piece of paper with HP settings for various models ( but not Denafrips), sound come out clean but each HP setting together with the "MODE" button when playing a dsd file the dac reads 44.1/8x at NOS or OS mode meaning it's reading pcm files. Also the SU-1 "DSD" light is not lit. Tried to dig around the net for correct setting but surprised there aren't any articles out there about this. I do noticed quite a few Denafripsers are using this combo to enjoy i2s. Is there a quick guide for idiot like me? Thank you very much! 

@geekee  Is it in the house? 

Hello fellow Denafripsers,
Anxiously waiting for delivery of a Terminator according to tracking which should arrived my door in less than 24 hours. At the same time not sure how it's going to sound in my own set up. Finally before this never imagined myself wiling to pay a rather dear price for a ... MIC audio product. 

FYI from John Darko, Terminator in for review:

https://darko.audio/2018/08/letters-to-the-editor-assume-ass-u-me/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmI7exBjzDG/?tagged=dawandler