There are different types of drummers who can be called the best. There are the technically skilled like Peart, who never really get into a groove, and then there are the rhythmic drummers who have "feel." Just listen to Clyde Stubblefield, now that’s a drummer who was "in the groove."
I love Bonzo, his polyphonic rhythms have been compared to counterpoint in classical music. I also love Bruford, another original, plus Billy Cobham, Carl Palmer, Copeland, and Keith Moon. Keith, btw, couldn’t keep a beat in the studio.
There’s a little-known drummer, except in drumming circles, called Budgie from Siouxsie & the Banshees. Exceptionally rhythmic, influenced by African and Japanese drummers. DW ranks him among the best.
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I like that upfront, on-top-of-the-beat drumming. Hate that it's used in a movie soundtrack.
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What made John Bonham and LZ different from other bands was that they did not use the traditional rhythm section. Bonzo played with Page, not with JP Jones. Listen to Page’s rhythm and lead, and the drums are playing along with those rhythms. Jones provided a virtuoso-like back beat and very often played keyboards and bass pedals, he was not following the drums.
Was Bonham often heavy-handed? Oftentimes, the answer is yes, but so was Page. And the bass triplets were less about showing his prowess, it’s part of what gave them a sound that no other rock band had. His bass/floor tom rhythms and fills come from the basic rudiments of drumming. He was a drummer who was out in front, which was decidedly the sound they were going for. To a drummer, I agree it could be called a lack of finesse, but IMO, it worked.
bdp24, The drummers you mentioned were masterful, and played wonderfully for what the music required. That’s why I stated early that there are different types of drummers and the music determines what is needed.
Now, Neil Peart is a drummer who is showing off his technical prowess. Luckily, he’s in a band that allows for that style of drumming. When I first heard him, I thought he must be the greatest drummer in the world. But after a few songs and seeing Rush live, he was just way too much.
I wish you could have seen the tribute band Rat Race Choir, here on the east coast. Their drummer, Steve Luongo was so skilled and polished, he played Bonzo exactly but with finesse. In fact, he may have been even better than Bonham. I always wanted to study with him, but he had a limited number of students. |
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John Bonham's part in "Rock and Roll" is a direct cop of Earl Palmer's in Little Richard's "Keep-A-Knockin'" Wow, that is a keen observation. But IMO, its probably a homage to that intro and Earl Palmer. After all, the song is called "Rock and Roll." einmensch, your comment really puts this subject into perspective. And right on with your list of great jazz drummers. Funny how these lists of great rock drummers always turns into a list of jazz drummers. But that is the natural progression in music, drummers like Simon Philips and Bill Bruford have released jazz albums. (Just to name a few). I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Steve Gadd; he can do it all. |
I saw Buddy Rich a few times in the 70’s, Joe Morello, Peter Erskine. As I stated earlier, these lists of Rock drummers invariably turn into a list of Jazz drummers. But the reason could be that many of those who make these lists are interested in musicians who have progressed in their craft, which ultimately is learning to play jazz. When I started playing drums, I only wanted to play rock. After awhile, my instructor led me to jazz and I’m glad he did. There are Rock drummers who are the best for the genre or a band’s style of music; e.g., Ringo. Then there are drummers who are highly skilled who move beyond a single genre. There’s no doubt that Carl Palmer, Neal Peart, Phil Collins, Bill Bruford, Mitch Mitchell have the chops to play jazz, but are in the Rock category. And then there’s Steve Gadd and Jim Keltner who decidedly play it all. The following link was on another thread and is for the Neil Peart fans. This girl is amazing; she makes forget that I don’t like Rush... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C00BpiE52mM |
I forgot to add the late, great Cozy Powell to our list.
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I was reminded of what I so dislike about Bonham---his playing was so
"literal", so un-poetic. It didn’t have any elegance, any grace. Almost
rude! His bass drum triplets (one of the tricks he is known for) were
played just to show he could do it, not to serve any higher purpose;
they didn’t have anything to do with what anyone else was playing or
singing, or to the song itself @bdp24 , I'm a huge Bonham fan, and IMO, his style was perfect for LZ, but here is a side project of his featuring literal, heavy drumming, with unnecessary bass drum triplets. Very disappointing... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJZ9llTB-vgAlso, John Bonham died 37 years ago, Sept. 25, 1980. See the rankings of the BEST ROCK DRUMMERS... http://loudwire.com/led-zeppelin-john-bonham-dies-anniversary/ |
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Good video, and for the reason stated is why Ringo is such a musical drummer. Love how honest he is.
bdp, totally agree about Steve Gadd. Didn't know about the military band but clearly he was well schooled in rudiments. So true that he plays what the song requires, in contrast to Peart.
But I must disagree about Bonham's style with LZ. He wasn't overplaying, he was key in giving Zep their sound. What makes them so different than their contemporaries is that he was very often playing with the rhythm of the guitar, rather than the bass.
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@bdp24 , What Bonham does is play an overly-long (imo) run around his toms,
duplicating, on his "untuned" (drums are tensioned, not tuned to notes,
generally speaking) instrument (specifically his tom toms) what Page is
already playing. Playing those notes all around his toms serves no
musical purpose (there’s that term again), and creates a one-dimensional
style of music, with no depth, no layers. True, Bonham doesn’t play
that way all the time in every song, but it IS his basic approach.
Recall the guitar, drum, and bass parts in "Good Times, Bad Times", for
example; all three are accenting the same rhythm. SO one dimensional! Ah, I see what you are saying with this statement. I'll admit there are times when his fills are overdone and could have been more restrained. I'll make the excuse that he was trying to take Carmine Appice's licks to the next level. :-) IMO, part of Bonzo's brilliance is how he plays a rhythm that is complementary to the guitar. He's not just there to provide a beat or be the rhythm section, and as @shadorne stated, he plays behind the beat and he still always lands on "1." You make a valid point with Good Times, Bad Times, but it was the early days and looking back we could also go on about how unrefined Jimmy Page's guitar playing was. But what came out of LZ-I was a unique marriage of American blues and hard rock; a very different take on the "Riff Rock" of the day. My last comment on Zep is that as they progressed as a group, you will find plenty of counterpoint in their music with a great deal of depth. Now, the Band with Levon Helm as a drummer was a very different experience, I'd even call it a different genre than Zep. Brilliant writing and musicianship which influenced many artists in many different types of music. Rock music includes so many different styles, that the term "greatest drummers" would actually include a very large membership. |
Say what you will about John Bonham, he was the perfect drummer for LZ. He defined their sound, often imitated but never duplicated. Even the great Carmine Appice can't play Zeppelin... https://youtu.be/lC2DOsS88hw |
Carl Palmer is the only one who could wear Buddy´s boots. Dont think anybody equals Buddy. But a good comparison since Carl used the Buddy Rich method in his drumming. |
