Has anyone heard the new North American products preamp and amp?

geoffkait, Roger gave a better answer, as I said, but thanks for your opinion.

I have and you are in for a treat after about six weeks of settling in by the amp. I don't know if it is just the curing of the potting compound, the forming of capacitors, or even my getting accustomed to the sound, but at one point about three week with it here and not on other than when I wanted to listen, there was a major jump where the entire soundstage from extreme left to extreme right was well defined. The sound was very involving with ambience decay. I had never before heard this with a symphonic orchestra nor with a big band. One would have to have bought the very best seat in a very good hall to hear what I was hearing on virtually all such recordings.

This amp is a clear breakthrough.

geoffkait, I don't think anyone said it was a final solution for the sweet spot. I never said anything about the sweet spot nor about the final solution. You cannot win an argument by changing the topic.

Mapman, the speakers cannot reproduce the sound waves you would have heard had you been at the recording sessions if some frequencies get to the drivers before others.

With the H-Cat X-10 MkIII, this cannot happen.

rsf507, also judge ARC gear in 1990 as it must be today.

geoffkait, Mach 1 is simply the speed of sound through the air and yes it varies with temperature, but waves of sound in live performances get to the listener all at the same speed. With other amps, the waves of different frequencies imparted by the speaker drivers earlier and later and thus get to your ears at different times. I must say that I am assuming you are not departing your listening room at Mach 1 and you would hear nothing.

Mapman, we all have our way of saying things. I taught for 45 years and frequently sought to say things in better ways.

cleeds, you and Mapman are obtuse. Where Roger's new amp differs is that all frequencies reach the drivers at the same time and thus the sound passing through the air to your ears is as it would be were you at the recording.

Since, however, there are other stages of amplification that are not corrected, there must be effects of these that are not corrected, but perhaps they are nowhere near those of amplifiers.

At any rate, what I am hearing exceeds even the good sounds of the Zanden suite at CES.

I don't think any distortion would be introduced but one might hear it less precise in location.

Mapman, from your speakers all sound waves travel the same speed. From your source and preamp to the amp each stage of amplification passes different speeds, except in Roger's X-10 MkIII amp.

Were you to have the opportunity to hear this amp, you would easily hear the difference. If you are ever going to be near College Station, TX do drop by for listening.

Obviously there should be no red or blue shift which would indicate some frequencies speeding or slowing up. This must be a monumental problem with other amplifiers as the X-10 Mk III sounds much better than others. I already said this.

But were this true at all amplification points, I'm sure the realistic sound stage would be further improved.

I have said all that I understand about this revolution. Listen for yourself.

I guess enthusiasm is anathema for you guys. LOL!

I think you are misinterpreting what both men said. 

Roger, this is a good explanation, but I suspect it is over gdhall's head. 

I have noticed that the sound image of symphonic music is both greatly widened at the sweet spot and that even moving into the corner of the room I still get a sense of the sound stage. I haven't tried this with say electrostats that do not present much of a wide sweet spot. 

geoffkait, just listen to the amp.

Yes, having all frequencies arrive at your ears at the same time affects the sweet spot. I abandoned electrical engineering when I discovered all they cared about was having a circuit that worked. I have never heard two amps by different manufacturers sound alike. Similarly, I have never found all speakers sound alike in my room with everything else held constant. This could go on and on. Mankind does not know everything about nature's laws.

Cleeds, you are like the audience on Hyde Park Corner in London. You get your kicks out of shouting nonsense about any topic including one you have never seen much less listened to or have the competence to understand. I might not fully understand but I have listened to it.

atmasphere, since I started this thread making exactly your main point, namely let this amp prove itself, as it has with all the first adopters, you are the point who is digging a hole for yourself, as you have no credence in discussing how it works. I think Roger is telling critics like you far too much. I personally have no use for EEs as that field has greatly regimented positions that we know everything. The best amp and preamps are not by EEs. Mainly those well versed by the US military training in electronics dominate the innovators. 

I do agree with you that Roger should let you guys die on the vine. When more people hear these units, no erstwhile credentials will give any of you, credence in its merits.

atmasphere, perhaps I was painting with too broad a brush. I apologize.
   Physics and EE were two of my undergraduate majors but then I got involved with computers and using the scientific method to illuminate how people vote and why most state policies don't have any impact. This for 45 years was my career. 
  Early on I was quite impressed with Roger Paul's first preamp. That original thread has had several million readings many saying that he was selling snake oil. That was ridiculous in my opinion. 
All that I can really recommend is that you might want to give this amp a listen. 
  I was very impressed at CES with the Zanden suite because it had a very wide sense of the location of musicians. It cost $753,000! Rogers amp give symphony orchestras a full display from extreme left to extreme right. This is far wider than the Zanden system did and at a very small fraction of the price.

gdhal, Good information is evidenced by it working, this is the theory part of the scientific method. There is also good reason for a designer to not really tell what is true.

I have been able to greatly improve the sound of Roger's amp using the new Star Sound Tech. 2.5AP-1AINT audio points under it rather than their old 1.5AP-1 INT Audio Points over 300,000 of. Furthermore their new APCD4-Invert coupling cup also contributes more than their original coupling cup. So vibrations being drained seem to be important to sound also. One hears about mechanical coupling and the speed of these devises in getting vibrations to the floor and earth. 

I knew about magnetic waves derived from a signal going through a wire, so I can see how vibrations can induce signal in one preamp, amp, and other components. But why does the speed of draining the internal vibrations help versus devices that turn vibrations into heat work?

I long ago gave up on total harmonic distortion as a measure of the quality of an amp, when it proved unrelated to what I heard. One can measure it but if it is unrelated to the quality of music reproduction, who cares?

Yes, I too have given up on isolation after experiencing the Star Sound Technologies Audio Points and other devices.

I am also guilty of experiencing the TriPoint Troy Signature and the Thor SE grounding cables. 

I also gave up on thing bits are bites, that total harmonic Distortion matters, that bass traps are worth a damn, that record cleaning does matter nor static is unimportant on non-ferrous material, that you are not affected by sounds over 20k Hz, etc.

Geoffkait, I think it is disingenuous of you to talk about measurement as much as you do, as I doubt you have ever had any measurement of any of you products. 

I do agree that measurements would be great for valid concepts, but I know THD is invalid.

But enough of this endless palaver. Listen to the amp, before you get any reading of what you write. 

Geoffkait, you sound like Trump claiming that my post has nothing to do with the topic while you are the one that touts measurement.

Get serious! I know you never do measurements from our conversations over the years.

Fortunately, neither Roger nor I take your comments seriously. I guess you are also a member of the club as you never take anyones' opinions seriously.

So since all of those who have heard the H-Cat amp love it, I will bow out.

I once had two Halcyonics active isolation units. They were very expensive units and focused on low frequencies and thought that under my turntable and under my amp. This company ultimately raised prices greatly and was slow in delivery, but I never had an entire system isolated on these platforms.

At about that time I experienced the Stillpoints ESS rack and asked for a review sample. Everything on the ESS was better than two things on the active isolation platform.

The Stillpoints has a innovative method of turning vertical vibrations into horizontal vibrations and hence into heat. Ultimately, I had everything isolated on their Ultras and ESS racks. 

Along came the Star Sound Tech Apprentice platforms. Under my amps it was more dynamic with a sharp leading edge and great high end to go with the benefits of HFC cables. I now use both companies products, each with its own benefits. I have a friend who needs real isolation for his experiments. He bought Halcyonics and showed no interest in Stillpoints. 

Long ago, I learned that using a Goldmund single hard point under the transformer and two soft points elsewhere was a nice improvement.

My overall conclusion is that we need more science focusing on vibrations. Is it better to try to absorb them or to drain them away to mass. Meanwhile I go with what I hear.

Geoffkait, so what is best for music isolation or draining vibrations and why? Somebody on this thread some time ago sold "Brilliant pebbles" in a bottle and later decided that having them in a bag was better. Was science and measurement involved. Incidentally, someone else on this thread thought that they did some good. 

gdhal, why would you say this? It is true that there are many who haven't heard it but many other than me have. None have had anything bad to say about it. Does that bother you as it does someone else on this thread?

Geoff,

You didn't answer the prime question in the first sentence. Also what measurements were made to decide what pebbles should be used?

gdhal, I'm sorry to have misdirected this thread and that the lack of science means that nothing can be proven to be correct on vibrations or even on Roger's amp. 

All that matters to me is what I'm hearing. I am hearing reproductions of performances that are thrillingly real. Tomorrow I will get my improved music server back and will enjoy the convenience. But I have been enjoying going back to my three thousand LPs and pulling out old favorites and hearing them as I never did before. Even the old Sheffield Missing Link is enjoyable and realistic.

I think we should all ignore geoff's postings and get back to the original question that was obfuscated by Mapman and company and then inadvertently I congested the thread by adding the Star sound benefit to the X-10 MkIII.

Please add you experiences with the H-Cat or the Star Sound, not your beliefs about it without hearing.

philipwu, I'm glad you tried the MkIII amp. I would strongly recommend that you also get the preamp, although presently it is being done on old chassis. I got the X-10 preamp first and compared it with my old X-9 version. The X-10 is clearly better. I had it when I got the X-10 MkIII amp. I did have my old X-9 amp with which to compare the X-10 MkIII. That was an eye opening experience.

I don't post much here any longer given the antics of Mapman and Geoffkait. I have long been a proponent of Roger Paul's electronic since about the time that Anna Logg gave the preamp a "Golden Ear Award" in The Absolute Sound where in the next Recommended Products, the H-cat wasn't mentioned. I think this bespeaks the influence of advertisers.

I have repeatedly been surprised that Roger's stuff has not taken off, but I was very happy that I had both a preamp and amp around to merely have upgraded. I know at least three guys in China with the preamp and maybe the amps and have been seeking them to tell them of the new products.