Hook-up Wire: Duelund DCA16GA vs Neotech STDCT-16 vs Cardas 15.5 AWG

Search for a member named grannyring. If anyone has, it is he. 

Check the “Doug Schroeder Method Double IC” cable thread (page 4). He was last seen to post there. You can pm him from there.

Thanks!
I have 35 watts per channel amplifier class A.

Please tell us the speakers you are using and what you hope to gain sonically from the change. These wires each have a sonic personality.  Really need to know what type of finished sound you want from the upgrade. Thanks. 

I am using a DAC on PCM63, amplifier Noosfera Echo & speakers on (2xMW19P-8 + D2905/990000)
Now in the speakers used some cheap hook-up wire. I want to try a quality wire to get a more natural sound.

Thanks. Nice looking amp! The speakers appear to be a very nice 2.5 way design. The Revelator tweeter is fantastic. I owned the Living Voice OBX RW speakers which had the very same tweeter and similar 2.5 way design.

If looking for a more natural or real sound the decision is quite easy really. The Cardas is nice, but not as open and resolving as the Duelund. The Duelund wire has the Cardas midrange bloom, but goes beyond that with a more open and “real” sound. The Neotech is not the wire for this speaker and your goals.

I am not sure of the crossover design as the link did not provide any info. I am pretty certain the Revelator tweeter has no resistor in series, but a cap and inductor only. The wire and cap used on this is very important. I would use the Duelund 20 or 16 gauge stranded, tinned copper wire here. The 20 gauge will be a tad more airy and detailed. The 16 gauge will be a tad smoother and full sounding. Both would sound great here. I would most likely opt for the 20 gauge in this position. 

If one mid-woofer is handling most of the bass, say below 700 hertz, then I would use the Duelund 12 gauge tinned and stranded copper wire there. I assume the bottom woofer may be handling mostly the bass notes around 700 hertz and below? Do you know the gauge of the air core inductor used on the woofer? I would at least match that gauge thickness.

On the top mid-woofer I would use the Duelund 16 gauge stranded and tinned copper wire.

Dont forget to twist the positive and negative conductor runs going to each individual driver.  I like Kester 60/40 solder with this wire. Be advised the 4% Silver solder types do not flow well on this wire. Also, you will need a place a heat sinking mini plier on the tweeter tabs as you solder so as to not damage the tweeter. 

As an aside, the Jupiter copper foil cap would sound tremendous in series with that Revelator tweeter. The Jantzen Alumen Z would be an affordable and good cap on the mid-woofers. Any series resistors on the mid-woofers should use Path Audio if you can afford. If not, the Mills MRA Line is also good.

Granny is your man, err, granny!

Thanks grannyring! I’ll try the Duelund wire.
Speakers crossover don’t have contain resistors.
I use Soviet СМ capacitors. Inside the конденсатор СМ is a high quality tin foil in oil.
They have long been discontinued, but they are very good capacitors . My friends and I compared the СМ capacitors with Audyn True Copper Max and everyone liked the СМ capacitor more. Despite their age, they sound great.

Sorry for my English. :)

Granny, I’m close to the jumpers for my kef r900 speakers. 

Shhot me a quote, please. 

Do you need a photo of the cabinet rear?

i do not bi-wire. Thanks

@grannyring So if you're bi-wiring, say, with 16 and 12 awg, it's better to twist the two 16's together and the two 12's together (tweeter separate from woofer), rather than 16+12 and 16+12 (positive separate from negative)?

Yes, twist each driver set separately. Twist the two 16’s together etc....

Hi Granny!
My friend has speakers on (2хSEAS H1215 + SS 15M/4531K00 + Morel ET 338)
This is a crossover circuit.
Now he uses the Analysis-Plus Bulk Hook-UP the cable Analysis-Plus Oval 12.
Which cable can you recommend which will be better than Analysis-Plus?
Thanks.

Has anybody tried new Duelund 600 volt Cu-Sn 12 AVG and 20 AVG cables?
How do they sound compared to regular Duelund DCA20GA and DCA12GA?

It is for power cords. I built some power cords and they are breaking in. I will report back. This wire can be used speaker cable, however compared to the cotton 12ga it will not sound as open, real, and lively due to the synthetic covering.

Hi @grannyring ,

Duelund 600volt 20 avg can be used for headphones cables. Cotton isolation is not as durable as plastic one.

I'm also thinking about to upgrade 50 cm long run of cables from RCA inputs to input selector in my 300B integrated SET. Now I use a twisted pair cable made from Neotech Wire 22awg LEGENBURG Rectangular wire.

1. I think the Duelund 16AVG will be difficult to install to input selector switch because width of this wire. (I need to solder 16 wires to this thin switch).

2. And Duelund 20AVG can be sound too lean and hollow.

3. So, I think that 600 volt version of 20AVG can sound more like Belden 8402, not as open and detailed like the cotton version of Duelund 20AVG but more balanced.

4. I also can leave Legenburg Rectangular as is. It is very good sounding wire. It has smooth, bloom and clean sound. But it is not as detailed and good in instrument separation and sound-stage like Duelund cables.

Regards,
Alex.

I was only speaking of the 12 gauge and my experience. Sorry I was not clearer. I assume the same differences will apply to the 20 gauge, but I did not test. 

Hi @grannyring ,

I understood you.
You wrote: " compared to the cotton 12ga it will not sound as open, real, and lively due to the synthetic covering".
What I want to say, these drawbacks may do a sound of synthetic covering 20ga more balanced compared to lean sounding 20ga cotton version.

Regards,
Alex.

I agree that the 16 gauge is more full bodied than the 20 gauge and I only use the 16 gauge in my ICs.  Not sure I would call the 20 gauge in cotton thin sounding however? I simply find synthetic coverings and shielding do darken or dull the sound of the tinned wire, not make it more balanced. 

@alexberger
Than you dont like neotech Neotech LEGENBURG?

Hi @pumpweel ,
I like  Neotech LEGENBURG.
I use this wire in my amplifier and phonostage for many years.
But I'm curios if I can improve the sound of my amp using Duelund Cu-Sn wires.

Hi
If you will make a comparison, then write which is better Legenburg or Duelund.

Hi @pumpweel ,
I had some such experience before.
I used LEGENBURG 22ga for tonearm to MC step-up transformers interconnect cable.
I changed it to Duelund 20ga cotton version.
At first Duelund sounded cooler with less midrange bloom. But separation, soundstage, transparency, high frequencies extension - everything was better with Duelund.
After some beck-in time, Duelund started sound lusher too.
But MC cartridge interconnect works with very small signal and with integrated amplifier input signal this wire can behave a little bit different.

I also made interconnect cables with  Duelund 20ga and 16ga.
20avg sounded faster and brighter.
16ga sounded more balanced, fuller with more information in low mid-range and upper bass and very natural, lush vocals.

Regards,
Alex.

Yesterday I updated cables from Werner Jagush crossovers to Altec 604"E" speakers.
I used Belden 9497 and I update it by Duelund Sn-Co DCA16GA.
I use 16ga cable for both mid-base and compression drivers.
Despite zero break-in time Duelund cables sounded notably more transparent, more refined with much more low level detail. I also noticed more open and airy sound from Duelund cables. I don’t noticed a big difference in general tonal balance and vividness.
So  @grannyring is right - cotton insulation is much better for SQ compared to plastic one.
The difference of sound between Belden 9497 and Duelund DCA16GA id very clear.
For me was much more difficult to compare Belden 8402 interconnect to Duelund DCA20GA because totally different tonal balance. Belden 8402 has more right tonal balance for my test.

Has anyone used Kimber Kable? How are sound impressions?

Hi @pumpweel ,

I compared two pairs of interconnects.

One is built from a twisted pair of Duelund DCA20GA 1m length.

The second built from a twisted pair of 22awg LEGENBURG Rectangular 0.5m.

Both cables are with Swithcraft RCA connectors.

I did comparison using interconnects from my Chord Qutest DAC to 300B integrated amplifier.

Interconnects build from Duelund sound more open, vivid, dynamic, with much more realistic tone. On other hand, LEGENBURG interconnects sound more refined and with more small level detail resolution. LEGENBURG midrange bloom coloration irritated me on classical piano record. Duelund tone was is much more on point on every kind of records.

This comparison made me want to upgrade internal wire to Duelund in my 300B integrated.

It has 50cm wires between input RCA and source select switch.

But it is too much job. I need at least 3 hours that nobody will disturb or interrupt me.

I’m am to busy now with my work and family ...

I did another comparison between 

Duelund DCA20GA and 22awg LEGENBURG Rectangular interconnect.

As test record I used Schubert quintet D956  with Jascha Heifetz, William Primrose, Gregor Piatigorsky.

Legenburg sounds smoother with better instrument separation. On other hand, Duelund DCA20GA gives drama, dynamic, energy that is almost completely missed with Legenburg cable.

ICs made with the Duelund 16ga sound better to my ears than the Duelund 20 gauge. Better mids, bass and stage size. 

Hi @grannyring ,

1. " ICs made with the Duelund 16ga sound better to my ears than the Duelund 20 gauge. Better mids, bass and stage size. "
I’m agreed with you. I think it also sound more dynamic.

2. Duelund 16ga it is also fantastic, magical speakers wire.
I changed Belden 9497 wires to Duelund 16ga between external crossover and Altec 604 dynamics. (I have been using Duelund 16ga between
Amplifier and crossovers for almost a year) . The difference in sound between Belden and Duelund is huge. I didn’t expect such changes because both wires are Cu-Sn and both are 16 AVG.
The sound much more open, base is much better, high frequencies are more detailed and more air, dynamics is huge and speed is like in live performance. The sound also is much more refined and detailed.
Sadly, but despite Duelund 20ga is a good cable, it is not as successful and magical cable as 16ga.

3. In my integrated amp, a have long 50cm input wires for 3 inputs.
The input selector switches both signal and ground wires.
In total input selector has 3 inputs and 1 outputs. Each inputs and outputs has 4 pins (Left+, Left-, Right+, Right-). There are in total 16 pins.
I’m not sure how I can solder 16 x 16AVG wires to this tiny input selector.
I need to think about it...

4. Did you try to combine Duelund 16ga and 20ga in one interconnect.
For example 20ga for + wire and 16ga for - wire?

Regards,
Alex.

I forget to say.
The goal of compaction between Duelund DCA20GA and 22awg LEGENBURG Rectangular interconnect was to decide -
should I change 22awg LEGENBURG cables in my 300B integrative amplifier to DCA20GA or not?
Or maybe, I should think about changing LEGENBURG cables to DCA16GA?

Hi @grannyring ,

Did you compared  DCA16GA vs  DCA12GA for speakers cables?
What is a difference in sound?
Do you prefer DCA12GA?

Regards,
Alex.

Much prefer the 12 gauge if you have speakers less than 94db effecient and more than say 25 Tube or SS watts. More dynamic, better bloom, bass, and midrange saturation.  Highs are still all there. 

Now if you have highly efficient speakers and 2-15 tube watts, then the 16 gauge is very good indeed. 

OK.
I have 97.5dB sensitive speakers and 7 Watt amplifier.

If the run is not over say 8 feet you are fine.