HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC


Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).

Well, I should get to my point:

I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels.
I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:

Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.

Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.

Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).

Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.

I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.

I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.

Thank you,
Tim



Much like Audiozen, I am basing
128x128noble100

Showing 32 responses by kuribo

do you continue to consider the Aluminati product? A substantial part of their cost is the expensive machined aluminum case which adds little to the performance of the amp.A much better price/performance option would be the ncore400 built to order from James Romeyn.
You will be putting a lot of dollars into the case with Aluminati that could be better spent (performance wise) somewhere else. Of course if the aesthetics of a billet aluminum case are important to you, then disregard.
If you want value for your money, I don't think you will find it with Aluminati.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/190182-abletec-alc1000-any-experience.html

read the entire thread....
I understand that the cases offered by James are not the flashiest, while those from Aluminati are as nice as you will find. My feeling is there must be some middle ground as in my opinion you are probably paying at least $500-$800 just for the Aluminati casework. I would rather spend that on something that is making a meaningful contribution to the sonics, that is my point.

From the occasional ncore400 amp that comes up for sale, I would think that if you didn't like it, you would have little trouble getting most of your money back. I doubt you would find the same resale value with the relatively unknown Pascal based amp...

Whichever route you choose, please keep us informed. I have 6 channels of ncore waiting for a multichannel dac so I can actively amp my Magnepan Tympani iva speakers...I am very happy with the ncore product.
The newish ALC-1000 is hardly breaking news....They have been for sale here:

http://www.shawelectronics.com/ams1000-2600-2x500w.html

for a few months....

I have heard of some reliability issues.
I have no doubt that dampening, shielding, etc. may produce sonic differences that some may prefer. One can add said damping, shielding, etc., themselves without spending megabucks on the case.
have you read the diyaudio.com thread on the als-1000? You might want to before you go ahead with them...
I would read the the thread on the als-1000 modules on diyaudio.com before going down that road.
Did you miss the issues one poster had with them and the hassle he had getting them repaired? Did you miss the lack of clarity and assistance provided to those with questions by Abletec? Did you miss the complaints about the deficient instructions provided?

Good luck with them if there are any issues...

There would seem to be a world of difference between the documentation and customer support provided by Abletec in comparison to Hypex.
If at all possible, you really should try to get the latest Anaview module, the AMS-1000-2600. All the feedback about it on Swedish and German audio sites (where it has a following) from adopters has been very positive in comparison to the discontinued module.
Google ams-1000-2600 and you will find plenty of german and swedish audio forum posts.

I would either go with (3) and sell them on a site like diyaudio.com, take a small hit, and get the latest module. There is more to it than just a voltage selection switch....

Alternatively, you could spend around $1000 for a pair of used ncore400 monoblocks for sale on audiocircles.com....That would be the best option in my opinion...
You are entitled to your opinion. Listening is subjective and most are aware that there are many factors at play- after all, all equipment is part of a system.

I have no reason to doubt Bruno and others at Hypex who have stated that there is no material difference between the two amp modules, other than the input stage. No, specs aren't everything, but when you compare the specs and performance between the two modules, it is clear they are branches on the same tree.

No doubt they sound different. Again, different does not mean better. Better is subjective. To each his own.
Do you know if Teranis rating is dynamic or continuous? NAD delivers 350W/8 dynamic. That's not much different than the 400W/8 quoted by Merrill. The nc1200 puts out 650W/4 yet the Taranis is quoted at 600W/4. If it is based on the nc1200, why not 650W/4?
Since he can't buy commercially the nc400, what else can he say?

I have read comparisons and talked with people who have used both the Pascal and/or Anaview modules and compared them to the Hypex product. I haven't read of anyone that has sold their Hypex ncore....
There isn't much money to be made assembling amps from modules supplied by the customer. You can have a much higher margin by buying the modules direct from the manufacturer at wholesale.

I have read a few comparisons between the Pascal and ncore, and the Anaview and ncore. Supposedly, the new Anaview is not really any different sound-wise (see above posts) than the module in replaces, and I have talked to several people who compared the older module with ncore and said it wasn't even close.

As for Pascal, the 6moons review compares both the s and m pro Pascal modules to ncore and they don't seem to be in the same league...
By the way, I recommended getting the latest modules not because they sound better (though they may) but because is is always best to get the latest rev....
I am not saying anything about the reliability of those claiming there aren't any major differences between the old and new Anaview modules. I am just saying those who have intimate knowledge have made these comments;in fact, it is against their best interests to do so..it is a bit different with Aluminati where it is in their best interests to claim the non-hypex module is better. There are many opinions out there. Hypex has the best objective performance but regardless, it comes down to personal preference. The only way to know for certain is to listen to the various modules and decide for one's self which is preferable.
If it doesn't use a modified version of the nc400 like the new NAD uses, then it must use the nc1200 as there are no other ncore modules currently produced according to HYPEX. Also, the stock ncore400 has a better SNR of 125db, not bad for some DYI entry level module...
If it will sell for $2500, it doesn't have the nc1200. My bet is it has a tweaked UCD module.
If it is using nc1200, it will not cost $2500. Hypex has pricing requirements for OEM's using the nc1200.

The NAD with the modified nc400 is priced at $3000. Perhaps this is the module they will use.
It would seem with NAD and now most likely Merrill, that the nc400 is now in play for OEM's....It would be nice if HYPEX now made the nc1200 available to DIYers....
One wonders why anyone would buy the Veritas monos at $10K when they can get two of the seemingly improved Taranis at $5K???
Bruno, the designer, has said repeatedly that the only difference between the nc400 and the nc1200 is that the nc400 has a discrete input stage that he custom designed while the nc1200 has an ic input that is rather plain because it was thought that many OEM's would want to put their own input stage in the amp.

If you look at the specs, if anything, the nc400 has superior measured performance.

Several have said they preferred the nc1200. Bruno and others at Hypex have gone on record repeatedly saying there isn't any real difference in sound between the two. "Preferred" doesn't mean "better" in an objective way.

As for the modules in the new Merrill amp, saying "They are not the NC400 modules but new modules based on the NC1200 Ncore technology" is a bit disingenuous- the nc400 and nc1200 technology is one in the same. As I said above, NAD is now using a module based on the nc400 in their new amp, so my earlier comment that the new Merrill amp does not use the nc1200 module as indicated by the $2500 price, and more than likely is using a nc400-like module, as is NAD, would seem to be accurate...
HIFiAl, you need to come to grips with the definition of subjective and how it related to audio. Again, just because you, your buddies, or half the people at the mall prefer the sound of an amp, doesn't mean it is objectively better. The only way to measure an amp objectively is through specs. On that count, the nc1200 is not superior to the nc400. If you prefer the sound, that's your right, but your subjective valuation only goes as far as your nose- it may be "better" for you but that does not mean it will be "better" for everyone. Believe it or not, some people don't even think the Merrill nc1200 is "better" compared to many other class a amps. Everyone has their own opinion on what is better or best.

Here is the info on NAD M22:

"NAD's M22 power amplifier is the first nCore-based model from a mass-market company. Unlike competition from Acoustic Imagery, Merrill Audio, Jeff Rowland and Mola-Mola which get $10'000/pr and more for equivalent monos, the NAD stereo amp sells for $3'000. "We have our own nCore module developed in close cooperation with Hypex. It is based on the NC400 not the 1200 but this is not a qualitative difference. It only affects power output. We can do this because we will build and sell a lot of units. The 1200 was developed primarily for the pro market where huge power is required. In the Hypex 400 module continuous power is 200W@8 and 400W@4. In our implementation it is 250W@8/4 controlled by Erik Edvardsen’s precision clipper circuit. The benefit of this approach is the ability to offer much more short term or dynamic power where we have 350 @8 and 600W@4.This makes the power in actual use seem greater than the spec – in typical NAD tradition!"

350W/8 Ohm and 600W/4 Ohm....Sound familiar? This is why I conjectured that the new Merrill amp is based on the nc400, like the new NAD. I did not state it as fact, I simply said the odds were good the module in the new Merrill amp, based on price and power, would seem to be based on the nc400, not the nc1200. Again, the tech in these two is the same so saying it is based on the nc1200 is the same as saying it is based on the nc400.....The price and power output make it a better bet that the module is actually more closer to the nc400....
Maybe you should take your own advice and stay on the roof so as to not be bothered by all this sillyness....
Yes, he prefers the the anaview when used with a certain speaker. He makes no direct, general comparison between ncore and anaview.
And you seem to like to present rather narrow, limited, subjective, anecdotal information of little use or value to those concerned with actual class d amp performance.
According to Anaview, and a manufacturer who markets an Anaview based amp, the new module doesn't sound any different than the old one. The old one has been compared to ncore and found lacking by many. There are a few comparisons of the new module to ncore on various European sites and again, most I have read have preferred the ncore.

Yes, I have owned Spectron, Tripath, Ice, and Hypex.

No doubt some will prefer other class d amps to the ncore, just like some prefer class a to class d, tubes to ss....Different strokes. That is no surprise...In class d, or even other class for that matter, nothing compares to Ncore objectively. Surely there isn't one amp for everyone, so it makes little sense to imply that somehow amp a is "better" than amp b because some people on an audio board prefer it...
You might want to review this very thread wherein both an Anaview employee and Dennis Deacon are quoted as saying that their is no material difference in sound between the old and new Anaview....

Hypex has said repeatedly that there is no material difference in sound between the nc1200 and the nc400. Nc400 actually has better specs. There has been no conclusive testing or rigorous comparison done to show the nc1200 is superior in some way, only anecdotal reports, mostly from new owners, that they prefer the sound to the nc400. No doubt it does sound different. It is a common misconception to think that different is better in an objective sense.

No doubt you can find people who prefer one to another. As I said, people have differing perceptions and taste.

If you look through enough forums, you will find people who prefer ncore to anaview to pascal, and those that prefer the anaview, and those that think they all sound like mud. Frankly, I don't base my opinions of audio gear or make judgments based on the opinions of people on online forums.

Hypex has started to offer a cheaper, less powerful oem ncore because they recognize they have a hole in their product line. They are in business and it is a smart move.

Proven that there are better performing modules for less money than Hypex? Hardly, but then again, clearly your standards of proof are a lot lower than mine...

I do agree with Guido in that the implementation plays a part in the final performance. Merrill is adding their own front end now, rather than using the stock input section. That will surely change the sound. Better or not, that is subjective. No doubt some will like it. Whether it is an actual improvement in the amp's performance will await more rigorous analysis.
"Quote form Audiovisjon: "Though I build the hypex Ncore amps in Norway I have to admit the Anaview´s modules from Amphion is a better match. They somehow bring out a level of resolution and focus that is even more impressive. I would not hesitate to use any of the two though."

Since the amp designer used the Amphion speakers to develop his Anaview amp modules, the amp has been optimized for the Amphion speaker system. It should sound good.

That doesn't mean it would be optimal, or preferred, with other speakers or in other systems. It's one data point that also happens to be the best case scenario...

Just remember: an amp has no sound by itself. It all depends on the system and your personal preferences. Trying to decide which amp is best by soliciting opinions from others on the internet is not the optimal way to build a system.