2. amps-preamps
  3. 1399374353

HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC

Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).

Well, I should get to my point:

I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels.
I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:

Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.

Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.

Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).

Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.

I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.

I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.

Thank you,
Tim



Much like Audiozen, I am basing
128x128noble100
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
Hi Guido,

Yes, Dennis/D-Sonic was my first thought when thinking of the ideal company to complete amp builds utilizing he Abletech/Anaview modules. He's been great and I'm grateful he was so accommodating and willing to finish them.

You asked: "Have you considered asking him if he could take in the 1300 module in trade-in, and build you a 2600-based amp instead? The price difference might not be a major one."

I did ask him. The problem is that, since these modules are discontinued and he no longer builds amps using them, the modules have limited value to him. He did suggest I could sell them on the open market and put the money toward a new pair of his M3-600-M-A monos using the new Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules that cost $2, 050 per pair. Dennis has stated the difference between the modules, in his opinion, is subtle so I decided the Abletechs should fit my needs and I could save about $1,000, to boot.

Timlub,

I think you're right that there's enough info on the internet and enough support that James could have built these. I think there were some other issues involved that limited the time James could devote to my builds; he needed to prepare for the Rocky Mountain Audio Show in Denver and his normal Hypex nc400 amp business was still going strong and he experienced a surge in orders at the same time. But thanks for the useful info on these builds.

In retrospect, knowing now what I didn't know starting out, I think I would have just purchased a pair of the D-Sonic M3-600-M-A monos with the new AMS modules for $2,050/pr. and called it a day. Live and learn, right?

Hopefully, this thread will help future buyers contemplating class D amps.

Later,
Tim
timlub
1,649 posts
 
Tim, you know you're right, let us all know how you like them. Tim
kuribo
80 posts
 
If at all possible, you really should try to get the latest Anaview module, the AMS-1000-2600. All the feedback about it on Swedish and German audio sites (where it has a following) from adopters has been very positive in comparison to the discontinued module.
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
Kuribo,

Both you and Guido have suggested the newer AMS-1000-2600 modules are likely to outperform the older and discontinued ALC-1000-1300 modules. I tend to agree with both of you that the AMS is likely to sound better than the ALC; reasoning that Anaview would not discontinue the ALC and replace it with the AMS if it didn't perform better, or am I missing something? I have very limited experience with class D amps in general and have actually only auditioned one in my system, a ClassD Audio 440CS stereo amp, that I wound up buying in January 2014 and have used since as my main amp for driving my older pair of Magnepan 2.7 qr speakers for both 60% ht and 40% 2-ch music duties.

However, I'm now on a fixed income and no longer have the same discretionary income I enjoyed previously. Unfortunately, I'm constrained by financial reasons. Here's some clarifying information on my current thoughts:

1. I paid $560 for the pair of ALC amp modules and it will cost an additional $1,250 for parts and labor for D-Sonic to install these into their latest cases and produce, in effect, a pair of the original Abletec ALC-1000-1300 version of the M3-600-M mono-blocks that sold for $1,875/pair when I initially bought my modules. That means my pair will cost me $1,810/pair ($560 plus $1.250=$1,810). This $65 savings was definitely not my motivation for asking James Romeyn to build a 'copycat' version of the D-Sonic M3-600-M mono-blocks. It wasn't worth the added complications involved and now wish I'd just ordered a new pair from D-Sonic instead for $1,875. Initially, I wasn't crazy about the styling of the D-Sonic amp's styling and decided to have James build a pair of amps in custom aluminum cases with blue LED power status lights shining downward on the cases' brushed aluminum faceplates.

2. D-Sonic's newer AMS-1000-2600 version of the M3-600-M mono-blocks, designated as M3-600-M-A, sell for $2,050/pair. Adding in the $560 I already paid for the ALC modules I wouldn't be using, this results in an effective cost of $2,610/pair to me.

3. I did ask D-Sonic if they would take my ALC modules in trade toward the purchase of a pair of the M3-600-M-A mono-block amps. But, since the ALC modules are discontinued and no longer used in any D-Sonic amps, the modules have limited value to them. Owner, Dennis Deacon, understandably declined and suggested I sell them on the used market and apply the proceeds toward the newer AMS version amps' purchase. Good idea but I'm unsure of how much these older ALC modules are worth, not certain the newer AMS amps even outperform the older ALC modules and don't want to delay obtaining new mono-blocks even further, which is why I decided to go with the ALC modules.

I realize I might be making a performance compromise by utilizing the original ALC based M3-600-M amps, instead of the newer AMS based amps, in my system. But I don't think this is a foregone conclusion:

D-Sonic owner Dennis Deacon, one of two people having heard both modules that I'm aware of, has stated that the sonic differences between these modules is "subtle".

The other, Richard, Anaview's head of U.S. Sales and Distribution in N.J., stated: "the main difference between these modules is not sound quality, saying both sound remarkably similar, but the ability of the new AMS to automatically adapt internally to either 115 or 230 voltages. The older ALC requires a change of setting on an internal dip switch, correct attachment of an inline fuse and the use of a supplied small jumper when assembling that is specifically configured depending on supplied mains voltage."

Now, I think I should also consider Kuribo's post stating: "All the feedback about it on Swedish and German audio sites (where it has a following) from adopters has been very positive in comparison to the discontinued module". This is news to me, since I've not read any of this feedback on these European sites. but I would like to. Kuribo, if these Swedish and German forums are in English or even available translated into English, please post the websites.

I've become a big fan of class D amplification ever since I fortuitously buying a sub-$500 ClassD Audio 440CS stereo amp to replace a broken Aragon 4004 to drive my inefficient Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. I was fascinated that a small, 15 pound, cool running, energy sipping, green and easily affordable class D amp could out-power and outperform (literally in every sonic category known to man) my former large, 85 pound, warm to hot running, space heating and expensive class A/B Aragon amp.

As our predictable 'audiofool' natures dictate and manifest themselves, I began wondering how other class D amps would perform in my system.

This curiosity led me to reading everything I could find on class D; how it differed from the traditional class A, class A/B and tubed amps and compared sound wise to them, what amp modules were being utilized by which companies, sonic impressions from owners and even about DIYers building their own amps utilizing various class D modules and both switching and more traditional toroidal power supplies.

During this learning process, I realized that my actual class D experience consisted of one brand amp in one system. My search for a new class D amp was not initiated by a dissatisfaction with the performance of my ClassD Audio 440CS amp in my system at all. In fact, I had a hard time imagining how another amp would better this little bargain gem of an amp's performance.

My current amp journey was instead initiated by curiosity and a desire to become better acquainted with, and gain firsthand knowledge about, this newer (although older than I thought) amp technology that I believe has a very bright future.

I hope this better explains my willingness to accept my next class D amp(s) being a bit less than the latest and newest version. If the newest AMS modules are truly superior to the slightly older ALC modules, I suspect I'll probably be owning a stereo or mono-blocks example in the not too distant future and find out for myself. I'd also like to audition other class D amps, from B&O Ice ASC, ASP and ASX based to Hypex and Pascal based. I'm just a class D neophyte right now.

Thanks,
Tim

kuribo
80 posts
 
Google ams-1000-2600 and you will find plenty of german and swedish audio forum posts.

I would either go with (3) and sell them on a site like diyaudio.com, take a small hit, and get the latest module. There is more to it than just a voltage selection switch....

Alternatively, you could spend around $1000 for a pair of used ncore400 monoblocks for sale on audiocircles.com....That would be the best option in my opinion...
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