Jazz for aficionados

        HAPPY THANKSGIVING !

Fusian, I see you have two of the most popular albums in jazz: John Coltrane, "A love Supreme", and "Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section"; those are in almost everybody's collection.

I apologize for never having heard "Dave Restivo" you're old high school buddy, but I'm going to correct that right now by pulling him up on 'you tube'


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNs2sUKhuKA


And here he is with his trio; the guy swings.

Welcome to the thread, and I'll be looking forward to your many contributions.

Modern jazz is a style of jazz characterized by fast tempo, instrumental virtuosity, and improvisation based on the combination of harmonic structure and melody. This style of jazz ultimately became synonymous with bebop, as either category reached a certain final maturity in the 1960's.

I put that definition up there for others; while my definition is quite similar, it is unwavering. Anybody who doesn't like my definition can find another one, or write their own.

This definition indicates a style of jazz synonymous with "Be Bop"; that's what "Bird" invented with a little help from some friends. For the true connoisseurs of "Be Bop", "Birds" Bop is the only "Bop" that has withstood the test of time; his Bop sounds like music played at a fast pace, while others sounds like a lot of notes played real fast, and people accepted it as Bop.

In the formal definition, it states that "modern Jazz" reached it's maturity in the 60's, and that's "Koshure" with me. It doesn't have a cutoff date, like January 7, 1964, but I hope you get my drift. If you are a seasoned "aficionado", I'm sure you do.

Hopefully this post will cut down on a lot of confusion, but for some, everything adds confusion; consequently we will have to let them remain in their perpetual state of confusion.


After "modern jazz" reached it's final maturity, what followed was "Yankee Doodle stuck a feather in his hat, and called it macaroni". I figure it's good enough that we can almost define one segment of jazz, without defining all abstract music.

Presently I'm down loading my vinyl to the computer library, which is something that pays great dividends after a significant analog upgrade in the front end. The most welcome surprise is all the "brand new" old records; evidently, when I saw a new record of one of my favorite worn records, I bought it. This must have occurred when we changed from LP to CD, because for ages I didn't even have a cartridge, and therefore played no LP's. For the record, this stuff in no way compares to analog back in the day, when a BIC turntable and top of the line "Shure" or "Empire" cartridge was hot stuff.

I'm going to share with you what I just down loaded; "Bobby Hutcherson, San Francisco featuring Harold Land".


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgXmbhkWkwk


This tune is representative of the entire album, it's a real winner;


Enjoy the music.

I saw this on "you tube" and it brought me back to the time I saw "Sammy".

I had never been a fan of "Sammy", like being a fan of "Bird", or Miles, or any of the other jazz musicians. My fiance bought some tickets, and told me we were going to see "Sammy Davis Jr." "He ain't Trane, but I've never seen him before", were my thoughts.


There are no words that can describe "Sammy Davis Jr."; he had a packed auditorium of people spellbound from the time he came on stage until the end. He put on a performance like I've never seen before nor since; after that, I understood why so many people go "Ga Ga" over "Sammy Davis Jr."

     
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDu2onYeyk







Enjoy the music.

   
I saw this on "you tube" and it brought me back to the time I saw "Sammy".

I had never been a fan of "Sammy", like being a fan of "Bird", or Miles, or any of the other jazz musicians. My fiance bought some tickets, and told me we were going to see "Sammy Davis Jr." "He ain't Trane, but I've never seen him before", were my thoughts.


There are no words that can describe "Sammy Davis Jr."; he had a packed auditorium of people spellbound from the time he came on stage until the end. He put on a performance like I've never seen before nor since; after that, I understood why so many people go "Ga Ga" over "Sammy Davis Jr."

     
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDu2onYeyk


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkDu2onYeyk







Enjoy the music.

Rok, if you're a "jazz aficionado", as we are, how could he appeal to you if you never saw him entertain live. I most certainly was not impressed by the tickets; after all Sammy does not play the drums, he does not blow tenor, nor does he blow trumpet; he sings in a fashion that doesn't quite reach me, the only thing I have is him as "Sporting Life" in Porgy.

When my wife told me she had tickets for us to see Gladys Knight, without the Pips, I was not the least bit impressed that time either, because I had not seen her rated in the Downbeat Polls as doing anything in jazz. It was only when I saw the magic she possessed as an entertainer, was I impressed. It's not by accident those people are big stars.

Rok, they don't earn big bucks because of the way they look; they got "magic", and unless you see them, (or saw them) in the case of Sammy, you would not believe what I just stated; therefore I understand. But if you had seen him perform live, and said he didn't appeal to you, I would say you need a check up.


Enjoy the music.

Lou Rawls seems like an old friend because he sings about the Chicago I knew as a teenager; girls, girls, and more girls, pretty girls up and down that long Walgreen soda fountain counter.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGuwgHIHnZY


There are so many songs I like by Lew, that I can't think of a favorite, but I like this one a lot;



          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hqcKul3cnk


I can't think of any other vocalist I like better, but I'm trying. For me, it seems that memories have to be attached to vocals, unlike instrumentals, that I can evaluate immediately.

Oscar Brown is well represented in my collection with a lot of appropriate memories.

I liked Kurt Elling scatting on "Nature Boy", plus that was a driving arrangement; "Did the drummer get too much"? I'll have to get that. What do you think about him and Rachelle Ferrell on the same show?


Enjoy the music.

It's for sure that "Lou" was our favorite male vocalist; I had gotten so use to his voice that it seemed like an old friend was singing to me, plus I could relate to the songs he sang; "Street of Dreams", is one of them.

This place was my last "hangout"; that's when your nights for hanging are coming to an end, and the other folks in the joint were in the same boat with me; they knew that the good times for enjoying the night life would soon be over, but it was on the street of dreams.


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kw6khrGLr4


 


Well folks, I'm having fun doing my thing this morning, which is choosing records to down load to the PC library. Yesterday it was "The Man With The Sad Face" by Stanley T; I thought it was pretty good. If I find it on "you tube", I'll post it for your approval.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzpe5XD-RMg


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzBEvR7wa-0


This might be one you can add to your collection if you like it. "You Tube" is a life saver; no longer is it necessary to be disappointed if you can't find current jazz you like, that's because there is more good "old jazz" than you got time to hear that you haven't heard before.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, Since I can never tell anyone the conversation that transpired between me and Grant, the story seems kind of incomplete; but it was intended to indicate the love between two musicians that you mentioned.

Every since that night, I wished that I had lied to Grant, because he took his hurt and anger out on me, for one reason, and another is, I didn't know the truth would upset him that much.

I can make the story more complete by linking the album and music he was playing at that time.



                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZvQhQbPioY



That was one boss two record album.




Enjoy the music.

Jafant, that sounds like a good idea. My favorite bassist "Oscar Pettiford" recorded before the recording quality improved; consequently I'll pick another bassist. In the meantime I'll look into your favorite bassist.




Enjoy the music.

Jafant, while OP has many recordings as leader, and with many of the top jazz men of his day, my top 3 picks are: "Oscalypso", "Scorpio", and "Bohemia after Dark".

To me, all big cities are "Bohemia", and they come alive after dark. After the Sun has set, and just before it gets dark, when you can see the silhouettes of tall buildings against the sky; that's when Bohemia is waking up, and getting ready for the nights frivolities; very soon will be the time for "Bohemia After Dark".



                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5EwGijmqKc



Enjoy the music.

Jafant, these titles are cuts from the same LP, I hope they're on CD. They appear on the same page as the link I posted for "Bohemia After Dark".

Alex, you have hit upon three of my favorite musicians; I have the LP "Tricotism", Lucky Thompson is so smooth; Skeeter Best has a boss solo on the "Soul Brothers" LP with Milt Jackson and Ray Charles. Lucky Thompson does a solo on Miles Davis's "Walkin" that's out of sight; I'll link it ;


                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMW3RloxEyA



Enjoy the music.

Alex, I have the Blue Note 45 sessions issued by Mosaic, 2 CD's; that must be the same thing. It came with a book that I have yet to read.

Milt Jackson, "Ballads and Blues", this is the true "Golden age of jazz"; the notes coming off of Milt's vibes, seemed to be just popping out of the air. It's one thing to hear this music now, but it's entirely another to have been there at that time; everything surrounding 56 comes back to me; 56 Bel aire convertible, 56 Ford Convertible; those were the cars for a young man to have. You have no idea how special that music sounded, cruising with the top down, summer wind blowing in your face. Pardon my digression.



Enjoy the music.

Rok, when I used Etta Jones for a test record on TT's and cartridges, the salesman said it was a perfect record; perfectly flat and well recorded. That album has withstood the test of time, it's still popular.

"Afro Blue" is my favorite cut on that Abbey Lincoln CD.

I have that very unique CD by "Zap Mama", and I like it.



Enjoy the music.

How did people who couldn't even write music know all this brilliant stuff? Wynton, the go to guy for anything jazz, or "African American". While I found all of that very interesting, I would rather put the pieces together for myself.

Ghosthouse, you're right about Leon, that's his natural voice, he was singing in high school, and that's the same way he sounded when singing lyrics then, "no posturing" as you put it. Like so many musicians, he died too young.


Enjoy the music.

Here's a singer that I really liked when I was in high school.



                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G35oUvfqnsk



                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbCJbnNDmoM




Enjoy the music.

I just got Leon's CD "Spirits Known and Unknown"; the music is fantastic and so is the recording quality.

It has one controversial cut; I wouldn't touch that subject with a ten foot pole, I fulfilled my military obligations at the time Viet Nam started. If that's a problem, I suggest finding another CD with as much of the music you can find that's on this CD minus Viet Nam.

I'm having trouble listening to his voice or looking at his picture; he sounds and looks the same as I remember, jovial and smiling.

When he sings song for my father, I can see his father; Leon looked a lot like his father. I'm going to have to listen to this CD in stages; enough for now.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, you know that Lou Rawls is my favorite male vocalist; that hasn't changed, and I like Diane Reeves, what's there not to like?

Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, Grant Green died going on tour because he needed money, when his doctor told him not to go.

Grant spent much of 1978 in hospital and, against the advice of doctors, went back on the road to earn some money. While in New York to play an engagement at George Benson's Breezin' Lounge, Grant collapsed in his car of a heart attack in New York City on January 31, 1979. He was buried in Greenwood Cemetery in his hometown of St. Louis, Missouri, and was survived by six children. Since Green's demise, his reputation has grown and many compilations of both his earlier (post-bop/straight ahead and soul jazz) and later (funkier/dancefloor jazz) periods, exist.

They can say what they want to say about "Rappers" but they're taking care of business and making money.

I think your evaluation of Leon is "right on target". Now I'm going to pipe your link into the big rig, relax and listen.



Enjoy the music.

Rok, if you want to stay on the good side of the Frogman, you got to get into astrology, because it changes; I don't know whether it's on phases of the moon, or when Jupiter is in the seventh house; no, that's not it, the moon in the seventh house!

What I'm trying to say, is when a guys good side keeps moving around, it ain't easy finding the good side.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjxSCAalsBE

That was certainly not Stanley's best, but it had a few good cuts, and once I'm through down loading, the TT goes back in "mothballs"; no more vinyl, only what's in the PC Library.

As far as the title; there was a "love and lost" quality to the music, which could result in a sad face, but at the same time the music was reminiscing about the kind of love that comes once in a lifetime, and can never be forgotten; the kind of love Carly Simon sings about.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0wta3xkqJo&list=PLhdtRc6oo2tH-CLPL8onHcKSeGAsxFxuU


Stanley had a long and very productive career, and there were later dramatic changes in his life that was reflected in his music, but it wasn't nearly as "disco" influenced, as Benson's music.

I think the music on this album reflected the title, and how he was feeling at that time; no one is perpetually "upbeat".


Enjoy the music.

Quotes on Wynton Marsalis are the most misunderstood in the world because they always come out as Wynton can't blow the trumpet. No one, not even Miles ever said that; what they said was; when you give Wynton a blank sheet of paper, he can't put some jazz on it, but he can blow the notes off any piece of paper with some jazz already on it; that's a big difference.  While they never used those exact words, that's what they meant.

The music on "Nigerian Market Place" has such a different mood than Blakey's, it's almost like comparing apples and oranges. This music is so "subjective", that I don't think any one person can make such a "definitive" statement; after all, jazz is not a one size fits all.


Enjoy the music.

Many of the best jazz songs are like a short story. I've written a vignette for this song.  The name of the song is "invitation", and now the song becomes alive with your imagination.

There's a mid city lounge that feature strong drinks and good jazz; they run a reel plus a juke box, and jazz lovers like to come in to listen and unwind. Coincidentally, an attractive lady and a guy happen to be at opposite ends of the bar regularly. There's a long mirror on the wall behind the bar; not wanting to be obvious, they had been checking each other out in the mirror; but this time they got caught and discovered they were both checking each other out. They smiled at their reflections in the mirror.

He was just trying to recover from the end of a love affair and not to eager to start another. She had different ideas. They left separately without engaging in conversation, although she wished he would make a move; this is where the song begins.



                [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyp1yvSBq5I[/url]





Enjoy the music.

Believe it or not; I read that Leon was going to be in town, appearing at the same joint where I saw Grant Green.

During intermission, I saw guys from the old neighborhood gathered around Leon on the sidewalk out front. Naturally I joined them and began reminiscing about old times. All of a sudden, two tons of ugly comes running up with the assumption I'm causing trouble with the star he's hired to protect. When he starts running off at the mouth, they leave me on the sidewalk with Mr. 5 X 5 two tons of the ugliest bouncer you ever saw. (Deja Vu) It seems I've been here before.

You got that right, I never went back to that joint again.

My point Ghosthouse was that with all the records he made, why should he be so desperate for money? I know nothing about the music business, but that used to occur far too often with jazz musicians; but now that "Rappers" are taking care of everything in the business of recording and distribution, they're rolling in dough.

While "Rappers" may sell more records, jazz musicians sold over a longer period of time; there's no way jazz musicians should have been desperate for money. Local musicians who work on a regular basis aren't desperate for money. What I'm saying is that when too many people are handling things, money disappears.

Are we on the same wave length? If not I'll come back.

Ghosthouse, jazz musicians depended more on record sales than concert tours. I forgot what the ticket prices were, but this wasn't a stadium; jazz musicians depended on record sales, and although records were selling, the musicians didn't seem to reap the benefits. Now there are local musicians who record, and sell their own CD's; they're living at about the same level as someone with a good job; nice house, new car; they are not hurting.

Maybe Frogman will chime in and enlighten us; we're not talking about musicians with big dope habits who could make any amount of money and still be broke.



Enjoy the music.

Ahmed Abdul Malik was an interesting bass player; he was of Sudanese descent and played with Thelonious Monk, Randy Weston, and Coleman Hawkins. This is his most exotic record.


                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVDnfy9soNU


                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOGqAvElCAs




Enjoy the music.

Rok, sometime you have a hard time understanding things; before Leon Thomas was anything, he was a childhood friend, and now he's dead. Although he's been dead since 99, I haven't dealt with that fact. I might start a record, and then stop it. When he was alive, I enjoyed his records, but now it's a mixed bag.

This is no different than if you were hearing a childhood friends voice that was no longer with us. I should have dealt with his death when he died, but I didn't; and now whether I want to deal with it or not, I have no choice. It's no fun dealing publicly with something I should have dealt with a long time ago, but such is life.



Enjoy the music.

In regard to Wynton we are saying the same thing in between the lines.


In regard to jazz, "subjectivity" is always a factor.


Gene Harris grew into a national treasure, and nobody told me;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfNIVdnz1FQ


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odkIpuRKkko



Enjoy the music.

Well, "Aficionados", while I began this journey to constantly learn, and acquire new things, (which I did) I've also learned to appreciate what I already have, and I would like to touch on that.

In the beginning, I acquired "Moods" (Gene Harris) by the "Three Sounds", and I liked it a lot. Today, I'm listening to "Moods"; it's the very same one I acquired over 50 years ago, but it sounds so much better now, primarily because I can hear it better and appreciate it more.

I'm listening to the very same "Gene Harris" as I heard then, but he sounds so much better now. (an upgrade in equipment certainly doesn't hurt) but the ability to listen more intently increases one's awareness of the best music, by the best artist. He didn't just acquire that delicacy of touch, he had it back then; I'm just appreciating it more, now.

When I think about all the records I have, and the artists that I may not have listened to intently enough, it lets me know what I'll be doing in the immediate future. If you have an "epiphany" regarding some artist or record (CD), please share it.


Enjoy the music.

I think they're perfect, the way they capture the essence of each song they sing; "Moanin" for example.

It's always about the song, never the singer, and no one knows that better than Ella; she's always so appropriate, never scatting when it's not called for.

There is Leon Thomas the musician, and Leon my childhood friend; when they had the funeral for Leon the famous musician (famous in St. Louis) I had to close on the very same house I'm living in right now, and I couldn't attend both. In hindsight I wish I had canceled, and scheduled the closing for another day.

After Leon's funeral, I was sorry I didn't attend, but I got over it. Now it's hitting me that wasn't just Leon the musician's funeral, that was also Leon my childhood friend; we use to catch grasshoppers together in the field behind our houses. Me, him, and his brother went swimming together. You are never supposed to eat anything before going swimming, but he ate a half a chicken with lettuce and tomatoes every time before we went swimming, and never got a cramp, or gained weight; those are some of my memories.

The eerie part of this is, now I hear Leon my childhood friend, as opposed to Leon the musician. He sounds better than ever on these new CD's, and I'm enough of an "audiophile"to consider that an objective statement. I admit it would take a psychiatrist to sort this out, but I'm reconciling with those two people; soon I will have them focused into one person.

I think I have resolved my quite personal "Leon Thomas dilemma", now we can go on to other things.





Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, I really appreciated your thoughtful post. When you get to be an old man, there is nothing more precious than childhood memories; this was at a time when everyday revealed something new and magical, that you shared with "a childhood friend".

Thank you.




Enjoy the music.

Jafant, although Charles Mingus plays bass, I don't think of him as a bassist because of all the music he's composed, and fantastic records he's made.

I hope that's not too confusing, but when you get to be an old jazz "aficionado" you'll understand.



                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sfe_8RAaJ0



Enjoy the music.

Rok, as long as I've been listening to jazz, and that includes listening at a variety of friends homes, you would think that I had at least heard about almost every album in this time frame and genre (that's what I thought) I've never heard of either one of these albums; I'll have to get them.

"The Big 6" has made an old tune brand new; each one of those musicians is a star.



Enjoy the music.

Jafant, many of my favorites by Mingus are on this album.



                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPT__sB6hgU

lEARSFOOL AND Frogman, this is especially for you two guys; these top jazz musicians are talking to other musicians about "music". While I enjoyed this clip, I didn't always know what they were talking about; but they discussed "modal" and other aspects of music.

Although the center of the discussion was "Kind Of Blue", they went much farther than that; it was about Miles Music. First and foremost, this documentary is about "music"; consequently, Learsfool there's a lot you will understand in this documentary, that eludes me.



              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RqrBKfg1sE


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSwyd0E767Y&list=PL0F7DF9D912BA575B



              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-EgyUcHSSQ



Enjoy the music.

Cecile sounds good, but that guy on piano is smoking, bass ain't too bad either; this is good jazz, and it's new.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icB89YRbe4c&list=PLpU8C1tU8VuK9G3B_S4ajUyrWtxfE6GO9&index=2


I like this;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpQ_pWev24w



Another one for the ladies;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8YuzBt13D0


This is one of the classic albums of all time, and I can't find mine; gotta keep looking.



                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OaNWjaIdUA


       

The LA4 captured the soul of Brazil on Samba De Orfeu, Corcovado, and Wave.

Here's a Brazilian group I like a lot;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpuvi0KTu7g


           

Canto De Ossanha by the master;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgS16Ipnr2E

Frogman, since I'm not qualified to voice an expert opinion in re to classical music, I'll accept your expert opinion as the final word on Wynton's classical "virtuosity".

Rok, I just ran across another vocalist who was perfect for the music he sang; "King Pleasure", the artist who was hot in the early 50's I think it was, he was on radio and the jukeboxes at that time. You can find him on "you tube"

I discovered why you never heard about him; he was "lazy", and only worked when he felt like it.

I'm listening to something right now that's the answer to one of Ghosthouse's questions; it was about "Taste of Honey" by "Vince Guaraldi" . This LP is titled "Vince Guaraldi and Bola Sete"; they are the one's I'm downloading; the one's I bought before CD, never bought anything but CD's after that. This LP is boss, it doesn't contain the "original" Taste of Honey.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7R6UoOkF6M

That always looking for something new, was a real "bummer"; and I don't mean like just looking for some new jazz that I hadn't heard, but it had to be the latest up to date jazz.

When I found, or was recommended what was the latest, it sounded more like the "lostest" to me. Now, I just let it happen without regard for when it was recorded but whether or not I like it. I know that most of the time the music falls in the category of "jazz jazz", but it's still new to me because there was so much good music recorded, that it was impossible to have collected it all, and now I'm just catching up. This is not to say that the latest has to always be out of shape, but I won't change my shape to suit it's shape.

Maybe in the next life time I'll come up to date, and get the music that's current; but for now, just getting the music that sounds good will suffice.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, that LP was released in 1964, and that only tells you "partially" how timeless this music is; I remember hearing some of this music going back to the mid 50's; good music never get old.

The only relationship the Cuban Blues has to American Blues is the same relationship they both have to the Universal World Blues.

This music is about as "authentic" as any music can get; Cubans didn't have to reach back to Africa because it came to Cuba and never left; while slavery beat the Africa out of the Africans. I know you remember "Roots" and Kunta Kente. "My name is Kunta Kente!" Yo name is "Toby" now! Well, anybody who saw "Roots" know's how that argument got settled.

I'll have to listen to a lot more of this music, and get back to you Frogman.

Fourwinds, that "Bobby Hutcherson" I posted that you liked, gets more repeat play than any other Bobby Hutcherson in my collection.


Enjoy the music.