Jazz for aficionados

Schubert, there will always be new musicians blowing different tunes; just not the ones we like.


Tablejockey, do you get separate albums by those guys, or just listen to them more intently on the albums they're already on?

You're absolutely correct Rok, when you compare to the "Delta Blues"; but I was referring to his authenticity as a musician; let's give him a new genre, and call it the SRV Texas Blues. Will that work?

You and I know the complete story of the "Delta Blues", and only the musicians who lived it can sing it; there's something missing with others who imitate it.


Enjoy the music.

Does anybody beside me think this trolley has jumped it's tracks again? While this is not the first time, and I'm sure it wont be the last time. I think I'll attempt to get it back on the tracks in stages, like maybe a jazz vocal; Jacintha is a name I haven't heard much of.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWO7PyDl7Ks&list=PLa4wcs3yJTlOoVevHKAH58Zs8SmeXIWQf


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpgBgaR01Mk



Enjoy the music.

For the second time in a single day, I'm forced to agree with you. Now if I could just match Rachelle's voice with Jacintha's whatever, I would have it all in one woman.

Not that Rachelle is bad looking, she's good looking, just not exotic.

Some might say Rachelle's version of "Autumn leaves" is over the top, but I like "over the top" this time; especially the way she does it. That group is boss.

You're doing such a good job keep em comin.


I'm enjoying the music.
 

Ghosthouse, you said you were interested in knowing more about Don Cherry. That little horn is what's called a "pocket trumpet"; that was his favorite horn when he was in his Tibetan Buddhist phase, Milarepa is one of Tibet's most famous poets.

He went through many different phases, but his Tibetan Buddist phase is my favorite, and "Brown Rice" is among my most cherished albums.


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKCLoR0K6uQ


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksvkksFW6y4

This is "Journey of Milarepa"


                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbaHyXB-LRk

Rok, said this one reminded him of Miles Davis's aunt Corine who made her living telling people's fortune. When the price was right, she could even make their fortunes.


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bF5yqfaYVw



Enjoy the music.

Cannonball "74 Miles Away"; this is some real all the way live "Jazz".


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmpV67Mgsl0


Enjoy this music.

Although we've gone back and forth on various issues, each person sees "reality" only from their point of view; therefore whenever the discussion is over, nothing seems to have been gained.

For example; Frogman is forever talking about musical technicalities, while I couldn't care less if the musician couldn't even read music, because I sense music, I feel music, and he sees music as it could be written. Which is why he's always talking about the "objective".

Assuming we're all "audiophiles" to some degree; it takes 95% objective rationale and reasoning to build a speaker or amplifier, but we judge and purchase it based on primarily "subjective" reasons; we like the way it sounds.

I don't know squat about music, nor do I need to know. How much do any of you know about designing a "crossover"? Do you feel that you need to know something about crossovers? Of course you don't need to know about crossovers to enjoy your rig. Neither do I need to know squat about music in order to enjoy it.

Since I'm an electronics technician, I listen more objectively than you; but that's only when I want to make an improvement or detect something wrong; I really don't enjoy the music listening in that fashion, I would much rather get absorbed by the "soul" of the music.

So much of the music eludes someone who listens in a technical fashion, that it's easy to see how they would have trouble understanding someone who simply gets absorbed in the essence of the music; we each have our own unique reality.


Enjoy the music.

That was a statement of fact that apply's to everyone, not just you. Many reviewers talk about how reviewing the equipment gets in the way of enjoying the music.

"Subjective"; somehow you are misinterpreting that word; it simply means that when we look at the same thing, we see two different things; there is no right or wrong.

"Stereotypical" I use that word a lot; meaning I've heard those licks before; Miles talks about that a lot. The "riffing hip phrases" he was hitting in the 50's, he can't stand to hear them anymore.

So many jazz sax musicians have a tendency to do "Bird" like riffs that I've heard before.
It's possible that things that sound new to you, are unoriginal to me, hence, that word.

"Objective" has no room for any other opinion; that opinion is the right one and all others are invalid. Do you have such an opinion?

Some jazz enthusiasts might consider the requirements of this thread to high for them; it's often necessary to express thoughts in writing, not everyone is qualified. plus as Rok stated, we got everyone who wants to post on this thread, ain't that enough.

Ghosthouse, I was listening to "74 Miles Away" while writing this post, it sounds better all the time.

Frogman, I enjoy your technical expertise even when I don't know what it means; but as long as Acman and Rok understand it, that's good enough for me.


Enjoy the music.

Randy, although I'm the OP, I don't speak for anybody else; in my opinion you would do better to post that on the music forum separately. Only when a recording is really bad will anyone mention it, and that's rare.


Enjoy the music.

Thanks Ghosthouse, I'll check that out; I might have those same tunes on various other albums. From what I've seen, those cuts were from other albums, and they simply selected them, and gave em a new name. Maybe Frogman can confirm that; but whatever, they are Boss.

I looked into it Ghosthouse, and it's exactly like I said it might be. No such album was ever recorded as "Cannonball plays Zawinul"; they simply selected cuts from other Cannonball albums, and gave them that name. It's a very good buy for a newcomer, but for me, it would mean purchasing what I already have on various other albums.


Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, they were all done live in various places, the banter is time significant; it's what people would have been chattering about at that time.  If memory serves me right, there was a dance called the "Philly Dog", that was danced to the sound of "Mercy Mercy Mercy",and since they were in LA , somebody yelled out "Do the LA Dog"

Enjoy the music.

That's a new one for me, although I can hear the kinship to 74 miles away. I'm not sure if I have Cannonball from 72; that has such a different sound, one that I haven't heard from him before. It most certainly sounds closely related to fusion, which was the thing at that time. The more I listen, the more I like it. Thanks for the tip I'll have to get it.


Here's what I was listening to; it's from Donald Byrd and Pepper Adams "Out of This World". Let me know if I'm repeating, because this has been posted before, I just don't know if you're aware of it.


                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNk3qtzNM_s


Enjoy the music.

Stevie Ray Vaughn is an artist who runs counter to my last post; he picked up some of Albert Kings licks, and added some of his own; his music is authentic. Most jazz and blues musicians build their foundation on the musicians that went before them, and go from there.

I'm not saying SRV is an Albert King clone; that's where he picked up his foundation and went from there.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeLddbrzsHk


Like any good artist SRV got a little bit here, and a little bit there, and mixed it all up for a unique SRV sound.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Yyn6LT2n4


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, there is no way you would compare the "Sweethearts" to the bands at the top. Taking "all" things into consideration, I thought they were very good.


I suggested, with no hidden meaning, that there were many jazz fans in Agon that, "for various reasons", chose not to post on this thread; that we were not the only jazz fans on this forum. Your moniker, and some of your posts on other threads, were the giveaway. Nice comments and I hope you visit again soon; plenty of "food and drink" left at this party.

Strateahead apparently has a full schedule, and not enough free time to post often. I would also enjoy his posts more frequently, but I don't believe there is any problem with the thread that's preventing him from posting.

Whatever the reasons jazz fans choose not to post on this thread, I say "Good riddance". We've been through that a number of times and got nowhere.

Recent example: He will completely bash SRV to the extent that he feels he just KNOWS that BB King’s praise of SRV is bogus; yet, he will post clips (for God knows how many times) of a third rate swing big band "(Sweethearts"), or ridiculous scat singing, or, or. Truth is, he wants to be considered the "Oracle Of Texas". This has been going on for close to four years, but I still like him 😘. He’ll never admit it, but deep inside he knows better.

Frogman, that was downright insensitive; if that's what you felt, you could have stated it in a more diplomatic tone.

While your interest is the promotion and vitality of this thread; where has it gotten us?

You seem to think I should go to school in order to learn what you're talking about?

I'm spending time responding to this crap, when I should be enjoying good music.


Enjoy the music.

Everyone posted fantastic music that I like a lot. Since I want to own anything I don't already own, it's for sure I'm going to go over whatever the music budget is.

Fortunately, I own Nancy Wilson; I've worn out many records, thank God for CD of that album.

I'll get back with individual comments on everyone's posts.


I'm enjoying the music.

This is an open question to everyone, and try to leave your bias at home; I want to know whether or not the fact that jazz musicians are seen so much in foreign countries is a culture factor, or an economic one; are there more or less venues for them to entertain here in the states?

While we all know about the culture factor; putting that aside, are there more, or fewer places for musicians to appear in the last 20 years?


Enjoy the music.

Thank you very much for your input Alex. From what I've been studying, the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer; that's a manufactured fact, not an opinion.

Although we are all aware of the culture factor, now the economic factor is in play big time; it not only relates to jazz, it relates to everything else.

I know exactly what you mean about clubs half full; this economic thing is world wide, here, the ghetto is third world. I saw those poor people in Cuba, and their teeth looked a lot better than teeth in the ghetto; not pushing anything Frogman, just relaying what I observed on the posts you submitted of poor people singing.

Reality is not something you put a smiling face on, but look at it for what it is, and do what you can to change it, if it's ugly. Not trying to start a different conversation, just looking for some economic facts from honest people, minus propaganda.

Rok, music soothes the savage beast, what does this do for you?



              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpYIFGaO59g


Enjoy the music.

This Bud's for you Rok
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/americas-dental-care-crisis/

Rok, you can get the best of everything on planet earth in the good ole USA, provided you got the Peso, Deutch Marks, Yen, In God We Trust, or whatever that will serve as collateral.

What does this stuff have to do with anything?

Did not mean to change the subject. I do intend to give all the music a good listen, and come back with with a review; apparently I've gotten behind on that, it's going to take awhile.


Enjoy the music.

Thank you  very much Frogman.  This is political season and any time a politicians lips are moving he's lying.  I'm trying to sort out facts from fiction and propaganda,
don't want to start a new conversation.

I know anything I say starts an argument, but Alex seems to be the least affected by the media hype, brain washers; by that I mean a person has to do independent research to find facts.

Again I thank you for your response; now I'm going to review the music.

Rok, although not exactly new, there's nothing not to like about Diane Reeves and Jimmy Smith. That might be the best version of Afro Blue.


Alex, out of the three you submitted, I liked "Travlin Light" the best; I had almost forgotten how mellow Ben Webster sounds. Thanks to you I'm going to put that on my "Playlist" so I don't forget it again. That tune captures the essence of a bygone day; while I knew about Ben in regard to that time, I was unaware of Zawinul as a compliment; this is different from anything I've heard from Zawinul.


Ghosthouse, Rhoda Scot is new to me; now I have to decide which out of the three links I like the best. I definitely liked the first one the best; she wasn't smart enough, and hadn't been a musician long enough to know about technique, she just came on with a whole lot of "soul".


Frogman, this might be the first time I ever mentioned a recording problem; maybe it was because I was listening with headphones, it almost sounded like two bands playing at the same time; headphones don't sort out too many instruments very well, other than that I liked it. I'll listen to it on the rig sometime. Dave liebman, "Loft Dance".


Ghosthouse, I've got many records with Ralph Towner as a side man, this might be the first time as leader. Jan Garbarek, is unmistakable; he has a very forlorn sound, like some icy wilderness, but he's different on flute. That record definitely has the ECM sound. I guess when I get in an ECM mood, I'll get all my old records out and play them all along with that one; definitely a mood thing.



Frogman, you're going to see Rene Marie; I don't ever get to go anyplace, could you take me with you?

Rene Marie is the newest voice that impresses me, I'll have to get some of her CD's.



Enjoy the music.

"Loft Dance", On headphones, the tenor sax overshadowed everything else in one spot; but it was on the center channel on the rig; there was a good aggregation of instruments that complimented the music, I liked it.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, could you post whatever you posted where people who were obviously on the lower economic rung were singing; it was music that was specifically Cuban, they sounded good, especially since there were no instruments to accompany them.


Thank you

Alex, that worked out very well for both of us; did you hear how "hybridized" that music was, it wasn't hard-bop, or West Coast, but a combination of both, and a lot of things that sounded good. I'm sure I've got more of Sonny Criss in the collection.

His horn has that "far away" sound I've been trying to find, will continue the search.

Any day is a good day for new "Aficionados", but Fathers Day is better than most for me; it's a day where I have confirmed an especially important friendship, the one with my son, who gave me an especially funny card that I will share with you, but back to another important bond for now.

After we have gotten older, our "face to face" friends have dwindled, and the one's left we may not invite to our audio room because that's not what we have in common;consequently, our "on line" friends assume a place of uncommon importance  because they share our passion for jazz; not any jazz, but the very best jazz available.

My son's card: "Dad, when I think about EVERYTHING you've done for me, and all that you've given me, I REALIZE there's NO WAY I could ever repay you. I'm COOL WITH THAT, if you are. He could hear me laughing from down the hall.


Happy fathers day!

"Smooth Jazz", not smooth jazz, George Benson is one cool dude; he ain't no Kenny G.. There is a reason this thread is named "Jazz for Aficionados", and you just hit upon it.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox1Bu1HECQE


Enjoy the music.

You are quite welcome Tablejockey.

Since we are discussing two guitarists, let me throw in another "jazz guitarist" to put what I know into perspective. Before Grant Green went to "Blue Note", he was on the St. Louis local scene. The place where he performed on the weekend, was also the place where we (me and my buddy's) hung out.

Grant would come through on a quite night (Wednesday), and somebody would turn the jukebox off, and he would play; not for us, but for himself, and leave with very little conversation. This gave me an inside track on Grant Green's most intimate guitar; that was when he was playing for Grant Green and nobody else.

I am one of Wes Montgomery's biggest fans; I'm talking about "Nap Town Wes". That was when he played some of the coolest guitar you ever heard. After he became the famous "Wes Montgomery", I was still a fan, but I understood the difference. No matter what a person does for a living, paying the rent takes on a high priority.

If Wes had lived longer, we would have heard a lot more of "Nap Town Wes", because that's when he would have been able to shift his priority to what pleased Wes.

Down through the years, I'm not certain what my priorities were, but now I'm certain it's collecting the very best jazz available.


Enjoy the music.

Your quite welcome Tablejockey; although I know one aficionado who's saying "I heard that one before". (smile)

It's even a mystery to me as to why I don't have Grant Green LP's, especially since there were no CD's back then, but as we speak, I'm listening to "Idle Moments" which is one of his best records that's on
LP.

"I would just smile and feign interest. As a teenager, I just didn’t "get it" Way over my head as to the significance Western Ave had on west coast Jazz."

You will have to explain that to me as well Tablejockey.

"You Tube" is what I like best about these times; you can search for all those albums that you don't have.


Enjoy the music.

I'm sure LA still has a thriving jazz scene. St. Louis is "Style and profile", if you want to go to a swanky club to see and be seen we have them. Although the music is right up to date, apparently I'm not, because I could live without it.


After looking at all those DVD's available, I don't know where to start. They sound better when you're watching them perform; I witnessed that from watching that "Blue Note" DVD; Herby Hancock never sounded so good.

From what I can see, I want all of the DVD's.


Enjoy the music.

Alex, what you have presented is REALITY, and you have presented it in such a way that no longer can people hide behind words like COMMUNISM or whatever the current "boogy man" word is.

Alex, Rok, and Frogman, there is nothing I hate worse than talking about "nothing"; therefore, I am going to give us something that's certainly worth talking about, and at the same time will indicate who has any knowledge of economics.

     
http://wealthisbeingtranfered.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/wealth-is-being-transferred-from-us-to-them/


We can discuss this thread in full with no pretenses of avoiding anything.

Pryso, I select a "play list" from my "hard drive" and listen to that; almost my entire collection is on the computer drive.

Occasionally I tune in to FM jazz. We listen to the same time period; that's because we started listening to jazz at about the same time.

Today, I enjoyed "One Night With Blue Note" on DVD; it's fantastic.

Kenny Dorham: K. D. is here: New York City 1962 & 1966; K. D. trumpet; Sonny Red, alto, or Joe Ferrel , tenor.

Kenny died at 48, in 1972, and didn't play much toward the end. He is not always listed with the major post bop trumpet players, but deserves to be.

These two sessions were recorded at the Half Note in lower Manhattan, and the Flamboyan in Queens; both clubs were shuttered decades ago.


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r8BxHDHcdI&list=PLpqsnWtrepGqfeaVbHQYyfIR6PIGsvvby


Just relax and listen until you can see yourself right there on the set at the Half Note in lower Manhattan where this was recorded.


Kenny Dorham is a "catch up" for me, but since I will no longer be chasing some illusive unknown "The next "Bird", or whatever, I can find time to listen to Kenny.

Pryso, I know you're addicted to vinyl, so if you find the "wax", let me know.

Frogman, on those piano-less trios, you can clearly hear the spontaneity of the improvisation; nothing rehearsed. Each individual musician was a star; none of them are sidemen on those gigs; that's what made those sets so spectacular, they were created right there on the spot, and could never be duplicated.

Rok, nothing is more comfortable than having hot buttered popcorn, while watching a good movie; and it's best in a movie theater.

I enjoyed this luxury before the mall closed. It closed for reasons related to that thread I've presented. All of the business closings that happened right around me, also happened all over this country, yet nobody became alarmed, or put the pieces together.

While I can no longer enjoy "a movie buttered bag of popcorn" close by, millions of people all over this country suffered much greater losses. It seems that those who suffered no discomfort, as a result of those events, could care less about those who came upon serious hard times, due to those events.

Your comments, "there will always be poor people, especially in St. Louis" are quite true; but not so many at one time, that's what changes the game, and when every major city in the USA, has the same problem, it's cause for serious concern.

"Nero fiddled, while Rome burned"; we enjoy hot buttered popcorn and a good movie, while the good ole USA goes down the drain.

The most serious aspect of poverty is "culture change"; I am afraid, with good reason, of going back to a neighborhood I lived in for 30 years. When people are born into a world where selling dope is the only way to make a living, we're in trouble.

Since Frogman wouldn't let me get back to our regularly scheduled program, I wonder how does he like this one. But I still say;


Enjoy the music.

Rok, the Sonny Rollins Quartet, with Coltrane was good easy listening jazz with five old pros; that contrast between Rollins and Trane was very interesting, I don't recall hearing both of them together. Red Garland and Paul Chambers made that a perfect outing, I'll have to get it.


Enjoy the music.

Randy, "Grace Kelly" is an unusual name for a Japanese Lady, but I liked her good time fun music. I think they called it "Smooth Jazz", which makes it unpretentious; not trying to be in the "heavy jazz" class. She seemed to really enjoy blowing the sax, and I always like that.

Kamasi Washington, is someone whose new to me; as a matter of fact, both artists are new to me. Kamasi seemed to be striking out for new land, that vocal background added a real nice touch.


Enjoy the music.

Alex, this is the first time I recall those two together; I had to listen for awhile to distinguish between the two. I like that piano; when I can't name the piano man, but still like him, that's good.

"Newk" is jazzier, riffs more, while Hawk is old blues, "the mellow fellow"; just listening and letting Hawk soak in on "Summertime" . "Old Friends" sounds like Hawk on the lead off solo, but now I hear "Newk"; are they trading solos? This is good listening.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman is evidently giving much thoughtful consideration to the link in question, which is a good thing. In the meantime we can get back to our regular scheduled program.

The only "new" jazz I hear, is what you submit, or the only new jazz that's worth listening to. When I find new jazz that's been reviewed in current magazines, I wonder why they took the time to review it.

Everybody is batting 100 on their submissions, even when it's not in the "classic jazz" category, it's good music worth listening to.

Keep em coming,


Enjoy the music.

Thanks for that info Randy; I'm glad I discovered those facts from you, otherwise it could have been embarrassing if I saw her live and made that mistake.

As good as she is now, I'll keep my eye on her as she evolves.

This Bud's for you Randy


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X4P2FD_M3Q


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, you're an odd 0ne; "Bait and switch Frogman" I dub thee;


You object to my involving you in a another discussion about politics. If that offended you, my apology. However, I need to point out that you had already involved yourself with your "torture chambers in Guantanamo" comment. Although I doubt it, perhaps your comment was meant solely as humor; not a topic that has much room for humor. Not being from this country and perhaps because of your political orientation, you may not be aware of the fact that this is a political topic that is highly "charged" in this country; however, I am sure you are aware of this. I need to also point out that while you object to my involving you, you don't seem to mind, and conveniently overlook, the fact that O-10 first involved you; and, at the expense of other participants here. Why did you not object to that, Alex?

"Torture chambers in Guantanamo" was used humorously by Alex, but I'm using as a fact, since you mentioned it.

Now you come back all nicee nice telling us about mulching leaves, when it was you that got me back into this conversation after I had dropped it "What's your point"?

And here you come with another one of your long diatribes that speak volumes about something Alex didn't say, but after you twist it around to the Frogmans way, there no telling what anybody said.

Alex I don't pick fights, nor do I run from them.    

Steve Kahn is a name I've heard before; I'm sure he's on some of my records, not classic jazz for sure.

Tablejockey, when I hear a relatively new name that sounds interesting, I like to follow it up and see what else he has that we might like. When we do this as a team, we get quick results.

If you have any thoughts on how we can increase our collections of the best jazz available, don't hesitate to chime in.


Enjoy the music.

Pryso, when I got into jazz, anybody before "Bird" was obsolete. That outlook remained for many years, but recently, new jazz has to be "very old" jazz, such as Louis Armstrong. (isn't that an interesting play on time)

I'm going to listen to this in it's entirety, and see where it takes me, after which I'll get back to you.

It was in the Winter of 59; although the temperature was around 0, I had a hot date by my side to keep me warm.

We went to a small intimate club where they had a jazzy jukebox; "Speak Low" and "Sonny's Crib" were our favorite jams, and we punched them repeatedly.

At that time I only knew the titles of the records and that the music was fantastic; fast forward to today; Sonny's Crib is one of the best albums in my collection, but there is a very good reason for that; this album was recorded in 1957 at Rudy Van Gelder's studio on the Blue Note Label, and the most fantastic aspect of this recording is the cast of players; this may have been the only time they were ever even in the same room together; Donald Byrd, on trumpet; Curtis Fuller, trombone; John Coltrane, tenor; Sonny Clark, piano; Paul Chambers, bass; Art Taylor, drums; with that lineup the music had to be stellar.


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDd_0FuenDc


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qciRcd-CRa8

pjw81563, thanks for that Coltrane link; "My Favorite Things" will always remind me of when I saw him live, only a few feet from the bandstand in the Winter of 63 when it was new and fresh.