My apologies_Upgrade path from Wilson WattPuppy 7's?

Gerryah, 

We have owned and setup many pairs of WP,  Including the WP3/2 and the WP 5. We have customers with the WP 7.

We have also heard the current Wilson lineup as shows and at other dealers. 

You have made ain impressive list of some of the issues you have had with each of their models, the Mcintosh tube amplifiers are not really ideal for pushing the Wilsons, although one of the best combos  with WIlsons was the Vac Ren 70/70.

You should add the new Paradigm Persona which are very efficient and tube friendly, they are incredible imagers, and are remarkably transparent.

Also the Legacy Aeris is an unbelievable speaker system especially for the money, they have a warm midrange like what you like out of some of the Wilsons, they are very tube friendly and very efficient, and have a huge soundstage and very deep bass. They start at $21k with a room correction processor, preamp and dac, so you may be able to get an upgrade in terms of your other electronics as well, and with room correction you can get very good results in any size room,. the Aeris are giant killers and sound similar to a Maxx with the same kind of large presentation but in a much smaller room friendly package.

If you are every in the New York City area we have the Personas, the KEF Blades, the Legacy Aeris, and the Daili Epicon 8 all great

Perhaps a trip to the New York Metro area would enable you to hear all the contenders. There are Wilson dealers and Vandy dealers as well as our shop selling the Paradigms, KEF Blades, and the Legacys.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Yes Grgr4blu, we don’t have any experience with Wilson after outfitting Tommy Boy Records with 5 pairs of WP and a set of Maxxes in the nineties or the set of Wilson 7 that we recently setup for Fixbit last year or that isn’t any recent experience or a few other of our clients that own WP 7’s.

Or the store we visited selling Wilson in Maryland when we were at the Capital Audio Fest, where we heard the Alexia and the Alexandria X2 demoed with all top of the line gear last month, when delivering a set of Personas.

Interesting factoid, the gentleman who purchased the Personas who drove four hours to hear our set up of the Personas played a Steinway and we played the same track on the Personas very close to the real thing, by the way.

You will reply that you have owned many speakers yet you always seem to chime in when another speaker that we recomend is mentioned because we are bad apple trolls as you put it and how can any speaker made by anyone else can not ever be as good as a Wilson? How dare someone chime in and recommend another brand?

The real reason is you like many audiophiles are threatened when someone dares to question your choice.

We just did the New York Audio show with Legacy and you know what one gentleman came up to us and said "he heard all the Wilsons and the Legacy Aeris is a better speaker for a fraction of the money.

Please noitce that the Aeris is one of the top rated speakers in TAS as well as the Personas.

Please explain by what magic is a Wilson anything better than a Legacy Aeris with a Wavelet? The Wavelet provides state of the art room correction and electronically phase and time aligns all frequencies.

Oh I forgot a laser and a Wilson gauge is better then modern audio engineering.

You mistake my point, Wilson is a very good sounding speaker they are considered by many people in these forums to be the holy grail of loudspeakers, they are well built and well engineered and are but one choice in a myriad of good loudspeaker choices.

20 plus years ago I felt that the Watt Puppy was truly an amazing speaker but today they have a huge amount of talented competitors.

Why don’t you recommend that the OP to come to a shop like ours or one in his area and take a listen to some of these products and maybe he can find something that he likes that combines all the traits he is shooting for, the Legacy Aeris combines much of what he is looking for, by the way.

If you read his post you would see that he has a number of issues with everything he is currently demoing from Wilson, these include sound, tonal balance, value for dollar, size and a few other issues.

Yes Grgr4blu, this is getting so old. Let the people find out for themselves that when shopping for any speakers they should look at all the possible alternatives that might work for them and the Legacy Aeris are remarkable speakers for the money actually they are plain remarkable period, and the Personas if you have been reading the forums are slaying many of the competitors.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ.

Sorry Cap for your always shilling could it be after looking at Gerry's long laundry list of issues with the Wilson's that he has been looking at that someone should offer other advice rather then pounding the same dead cat.

Look at his observations:

1. Vandersteen Quatro CT's: Tremendously great speakers, especially for rock and jazz - not as good for strings (orchestral) - this could be related to improper placement and setup;
   
2. Wilson Yvettes: Great speakers, greater frequency range but less analytical than my WPs. Seem too expensive for what they provide, even at a demo price;
3. Wilson Audio MAXX3: Spectacular speakers, too much for my room;
4. Wilson Sasha 1: Actually sound somewhat better for violin, viola, and cello than my WP7's, even if they still contain the $7 tweeter!
5. Wilson Sabrina: Lack proper reproduction of cello in the low midrange - good speakers, but not for me;
6. Wilson Audio Alexia 1: Great, but I do not believe in this theory of time domain compensation or whatever it is called. Not as good in my room as either the MAXX3's, Sasha 1's or WP7's;
7. Wilson Audio Alexia 2: Fantastic. Not as good in my room as either the Sasha 1's or the Yvette.

If you read that does it seem that Gerry is convinced and totally in love with everything that he is hearing?

Cap, way too many audiophiles have the same experience that they are fiercely loyal to a brand and the product that they purchased, instead of looking at this objectively, we all want to love the products we purchased, but with that being said these are all tools, if you find a better one you move  out the old and in with the new and the market is always in flux.

When Wilson started Magico, Radiho, Rockport, Magico and YG as well as many others didn't exist. Wilson and to some extent Focal and then Avalon were the best speakers on the market.

If you noticed we did say the Wilsons sound good and are well constructed. The issue with many Wilson products is there ever increasing upward movement in cost and always coming out with a new model. 

You might actually find that  a disenting voice teaches you way more than another voice that agrees with what you allready like. 

Next time you are at an audio show, and Legacy is showing, listen to the Aeris and then see for yourself. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Well Gpgr4blu, the OP got in his hoverpack from whichever state he is in and sped over to our shop and purchased two dozen pairs of speakers because of our suggestions. The reality is that I have no idea where Gerry lives and he has not contacted us so it doesn't look like he is coming. 

How about, you making some relevant suggestions, if the man has all the issues he has stated with Wilson what is your suggestion that he should do?

As some of the posters suggested he should change his amp,  and then he still may some of the same issues he is having. 

By suggesting the Legacy or Persona you have totally different products which work well with  his amplifier and both of these speakers are magnificent and highly rated.

The Legacy is more WIlson like then the Personas, with a big full rich sound, and with a Wavelet the speaker is totally customizable to match his room's acoustics, and taste. 

So now lets move away from your negative comments about my company, please offer a sages advice on what Gerry should do as he is clearly not convinced  and has found his next set of speakers.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Gerryah, 

A change in digital won't hurt but compared to modern speaker designs your WP 7 will still show their age. 

I would look at all the possible choices in your price range when you are ready. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Sorry Grgr4blu, as usual just plan wrong. The WP 7 is hardly by today's standards a world class loudspeaker, the Tioxid tweeter can be spiky and the fantastic paper and graphite Scanspeak midrange driver is many generations old compared to what Scanspeak is producing today.

Also if you look at the measurements you can see the famous Wilson lower mid bass hump. 

I owned the WP 5 the sevens were not much better, and as you forget in our last go around I have two clients with WP 7 so I do know what they sound like.

I am sure you will regale me with why the genius of Wilson can in a loudspeaker from 2003 out class all the modern contenders?

Sure the WP 7 would be $25k in today's money, I can make the same arugment when I purchased  a set of Quad ESL 63 in 1986 which were $3k and now the same speaker is $12k. 

Gerry should be looking at all the contenders that would make him happy, and as noted before the many had numerous issues with Wilson including the value for dollar proposition. 

As I have mentioned previously compare a set of Legacy Aeris at $25k to a pair of Wilson Maxx or Alexias, and see what you get for your money as well as technology, oh I forget moving a driver a few inches to physically time align a driver is so much more precise then using the world of dsp and room correction to time align every frequency. 

Gerry should open his mind to all the major loudspeakers and as you are a Beryilium basher read all the people who are listening to the Personas and are being blown away such as Brownsf on another post. 

The word is setup. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Grgr4blu it is not bias but reality, a 23 year old set of WP 7 is not really a competitive loudspeaker compaired with many modern designs.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

 

Shadorne, even ATC has improved their products, the SCM 19V2 is a better speaker then the MK 1 so even amoung classic products developments lead to newer and better version of the same products. 

As per Mrdecibel, Fixbit has his WP 7 on Pass labs amp, ARC preamp and some other goodies, he heard our Persona setup, and noted how much better they sounded over his WP 7.

Another of our clients has WP 7 with VTL 7.5 and Butler Monad Tube amplifiers and some other goodies. 

As per your classic argument, just look at Wilson they went from WP 7 to the WP 8/Sasha to Sasha MK II so even WIlson must have thougtht that their newer designs were better or they need to continue to make way more money, don't know which is true. 

Honestly that last part is one of the reasons why I would not want to carry Wilson, the value proposition, why do their speakers get way more expensive with sometimes small changes, for example they change a tweeter and boom price goes up 30% over the last version.

To me that is a turn off. 

Hey Toodverne thanks for the nice comments, we calls them like we see them. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Grgr4blu, as usual we are here again.

Please look at both Geryah’s comments as well as Brownsf, if you remember Brownsf, was the gentleman with 20+ year old Proac Response series who after demoing a current set of Wilson’s was questioning if the Wilson’s were better.

To which we replied if you are not sure if a 20+ pair of speakers isn’t totally bettered by a modern set of speakers you are not convinced.

If you notice both Gerryah and Brownsf had issues with Wilson.

If your much vaulted Wilson’s were so magnificent, and so perfect for everyone, there would not be so many posters having issues.

As per cost differences in Wilson upgrades, please keep drinking the koolaid, do you honestly think that for the changes in materials from Sasha one to a Shasha two actually cost that much compared to the change in retail price?

In the case of Brownsf, he went and started listening to other options and interesting enough two of the speakers he liked KEF and Paradigm are brands we endorse, and one the Monitor Audio’s we do not.

What is interesting in Brownsf case if after evaluating the competition he is suddenly off of his Wilson hunt, I wonder why?

As per your comment about Home Based vs Conventional dealers, again you are just plain wrong, look at Neo Plus Ultra in Texas who is a Wilson Dealer,Audio Unlimited which is closed now in Colorado, Audio Limits also in Colorado, Gtt audio in NJ, Command A/V in Virginia, Audio Revelation and there are many others, many of these dealers are also run out of a Home location or are off the path or are located in a Home which was turned into a store, by the way what exactly constitues a store.

By definition a store is a place where mechandise is displayed isn't it? 

You mistake that we are a conventional brick and mortar run out of a private home vs a hobbist that usually only sell off brand esoteric proudcts and has a regular job

 We choose to do business this way as do many of the other dealers as it allows for lower business costs, instead of having to have rent on a store space, and a home mortgage, we have only one payment a month, it allows us greater freedom to purchase display equipment and to offer choice.

You will notice that we do not sell Mcintosh, why we feel that CJ, or BAT or Vac or a dozen other companies make generally better sounding products.

Most retailors have reasons why they endorse and don’t endorse certain lines.

We also don’t sell Rahido, why because they are wildly over in-flated for a company with woodern cabinets made in China coupled with those drivers which are expensive they just don’t add up.

We don’t love a famous British Monitor that is well loved with a lively wooden cabinet, please explain why a two way with limited bass and treble is worth $6,500.00? vs an ATC which costs $4,000.00?

One of our over ridding themes in why and how we select and promote products is the concept of value for dollar, if a product doesn’t offer that we are not interested in working with that company.

If you look at our history the products we promote challenge the status quo and usually cost 1/2 to 1/3 the products they are being compared to while many dealers continue to promote brands which offer marginal differences for maximium cost.

As your issue is with us being a home dealer lets look at just some of our eight listening areas, not featured KEF Blades, Paradigm Personas, Reference Amp Rack, Reference preamps and digital, turntables, starter audio room’s three listening areas.


https://www.facebook.com/122499304489958/photos/pcb.1738410759565463/1738410582898814/?type=3&th...

https://www.facebook.com/122499304489958/photos/pcb.1738410759565463/1738410389565500/?type=3&th...

https://www.facebook.com/122499304489958/photos/pcb.1738410759565463/1738410199565519/?type=3&th...

https://www.facebook.com/122499304489958/photos/pcb.1738410759565463/1738409832898889/?type=3&th...

Doesn’t look like a home based dealer now does it? Looks pretty brick and mortar to us.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Grgr4blu, maybe you should learn to open up your eyes as well as your ears.

You obviously don't read people's reservations, Gerryah and Brownsf, had or have with Wilsons products. 

No brand is perfect and we all appreciate different things. however, today especially there are a number of great products that offer fantastic performance for less money then ever before.  

I never see you mention a Golden Ear Reference, the new Magico A3, or a Legacy. Your time lambasting the Personas at dealers with dubious setup leads to your findings "of not liking Beryilium drivers," when most of the audio community and reviewers alike are chiming in that the Persona series is a breakthrough in sound quality for the price. 

That is one reason why we sell many brands of loudspeakers, you with your ever toading behavior is only ever talkng about Wilson although you say you have no loyalties to the brand you only seem to chime in with your opinions when the OP is mirroring your own.

If you are such a great source of audio knowledge when someone has an issue with a Wilson why don't you ever try to steer that person into looking at another product or brand? 

That is the difference between you and us, we make recommendations on many different products some we sell and some we do not. 

Please try to refrain from your standard sensibilties to attack us and instead offer the OP some of your fabulous guidance. perhaps and if the OP has issues with your brand  of choice, maybe the wiser consul is to recommend something else. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

grgr4blu, warped at my perspective.  You never add anything to these threads, when someone has an issue with a Wilson product you never make any cogent suggestions, you just stand their and yell shill, and salesman, and whatever put down you favor.

We use examples to prove points, as per your derrogitory comments about my "Home Based shop." compare what we have on display vs any of your favorite New York dealers we have a wider variety of affordable gear then anyone in the area, so your crack serves to amuse only yourself and we continue to go after the hottest products so that people can  actually go into a store and hear more than just a few brands that everyone is showing.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ