I just received new Chenin from Mick, cannot make any comments yet, it's still in the box. |
i am wondering if anyone has/has heard the new versions of the preamps to compare with the old ones? |
I am sure these wonderful Supratek preamps would sound great with OTL amps! |
Hey Dude, stay out of this thread. Just kidding with pun intended Grannyring! |
I posted my comments above on the wrong thread. Sorry, should be on this thread - Thought on OTL tube amps |
I just had my Atma-sphere MA1's updated to the latest 3.1 version (from 2.2) plus all options available have been added.
I have got to share that the current upgrades are a revelation for this amp. Wow does this amp now sing. So rich and glorious with state of the art transparency. The stage depth is jaw dropping and the images so 3D and real.
This is my first OTL amp or amp from Atma-sphere and I am taken back now realizing what I have been missing. This latest generation simply outclasses the 2.2 by a wide margin.
Yes, I am pleased to say the least. I have owned many a tube amp and this one has all of that wonderful warmth, bloom and weight combined with SET-like intimacy. |
Scott Frankland at audioeng@pacbell.net or triodev8@yahoo.com
He know everything one needs to know about audio electronics.
Most other repair people i have meet look inside a Supratek unit and
run for the hills.
Last time I spoke with Kevin he said he would take units once in a while.
Good Luck |
On his old website, Mick used to state that any competent tech could repair his units. I'm sure he would be willing to provide the tech with info/schematics.
I remember a member of Audio Asylum (Michael Samra) did some power supply repair/changes for another member. I hadn't heard about Kevin Covi leaving. Let us know what happens. |
Is there anyone in the States that repairs Suprateks? According to Mick, Kevin no longer works for him. Thanks! |
The remote control volume from my digital cable box happens to control the volume of my Dual Cabernet. Just the TV function of it though. My television is an older Philips/Magnavox. Perhaps you could find a Philips TV remote or code that might work. Good luck. |
Anyone know which remote would work on the Cab Dual.
What would one look for in a replacement, codes, Etc?
Thanks |
They are back
http://www.supratek.biz/ |
I use them in my Sauvignon. They are the most rounded tube I have and tried. I have tried just about all of the top rated tubes, so that is pretty good praise.
They are quiet,very linear,big soundstage,great bass,smooth mids,and extended airy highs.
Pricey, but well made and matched, IMHO
Joe |
I no longer have any need for the various 6SN7 tubes I found. I sold almost all of my tubes to a younger friend. He wondered what use they were. If you are interested in them, email me and I will put you into contact with him. |
It is just like a 6sn7 spec wise. Here is a more detail.
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_pt2_e.html
They call it a cv-181 because of the way it looks but it measures like 6sn7 so you should have no problems.
Let me know what you think of it - I also own this preamp. |
Has anyone tried the Shuguang Treasure black bottle cv-181 in their preamp? Is it safe to use as a replacement for the 6sn7 in a Syrah? Thanks in advance.
Ira |
Hi Kj - I had a phono stage shoot out with cole, pathos and herron and the herron bettered the phono stage on the cortese - a bit more solidity without any loss of musicality that you might get with AR ( also tried AR ref line stage on previous time) - it was an older preloved model - might be worth pursuing on 2nd hand market
Cheers |
Still loving my Dual Cabernet. I'm just regretting not getting a Supratek with a built in phono now that I'm getting my feet wet on vinyl. Anybody have a sub $2k phono stage recommendation? I'm currently leaning towards the Aqvox unit, but not really committed to anything yet. |
Just testing the waters, is anyone interested in buying a Cabernet Dual? The unit was one of the last manufactured by Mick and is all black. |
No, I only use them to connect to my SACD player. Mine is the Chardonnay. ( My mistake for not identifying the product earlier) I have no other equipments in my room. Initially, I thought it was the Amp but that was ok. In fact when I use the HT bypass there is no sound. But the good thing is there's absolutely no noise whatsoever when the music is on unless I tap or even a touch causes the thump which now I know as a microphonics and Mick said it could be good for music. |
Have you tried it with no source connected? Do you hear it when using phono only? Is it a "bleed through" or constant magnitude in sound.
From the manual: " You may notice some "bleed through" of the tuner or other auxiliaries when the phono is in operation. This is because of the very high gain of the phono stage and also because shielded wire is deliberately not used for the other inputs because of its sound degrading qualities...."
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Thanks guys. I managed to identify the problem tube, i.e ONE 6SN7 but now I am having a new problem when I turn the mute switch on. I am getting some sort of "whishh,whooosh" sound like you get when you tune your shortwave radio. Help, please. i already emailed to Mick and still waiting for his expert opinion. |
I agree with Snopro. My Cortese preamp was so sensitive to microphonic tubes that it would amplify the sound of my fingers touching the volume control knob if I had a microphonic tube installed. |
One or both of your 6sn7 tubes could be microphonic. If so completely normal. |
Hi, Is it normal to hear the thump from speakers when you tap the Chardonnay preamp body. I have adjusted the gain to the lowest but it is still there and the gain switches don't make a difference. Help.
Thanks
ST |
Awesome! I would love a Dual Cabernet at some point... Using a Chardonnay right now.
I much prefer him 'slightly in business' rather than 'out of business'. |
Anyone noticed the NEW Supratek website?? ...a good read and nicely presented. Good news is I hear some products are available again by special(patient) order ;-))
Regards, |
Bbro,
I had the same experienced. I thought the Supratek synergized very well with planars and electrostatics, be it driven by SS or tube amps. That was my impressions when I had my Martin Logans and Magnepans.
regards,
Abe |
Just to chime in. I am currently using a Supratek Syrah with my highly modified (capacitor & wiring upgrades including the amazing rhBackert proprietary dynamic linearity circuity mods)pair of Conrad Johnson Premier 8A Monoblocs driving Magnepan 20Rs and it is a match made in heaven. I have tried a lot of highly reviewed and regarded and very high $$$ preamps all great but the Supratek so far is the best I have found in my system. For what it's worth. |
Chelvam - you could be right - the hardwood would conduct heat and transfer to air but not as efficiently as metal - if you really wanted to lose heat better if top plate was black and well ventilated- I have actually since changed bottom plate to a sandwich panel of aluminium sheet with foam core due to rack height limits and new tubes but I suspect the hardwood was better - life is too short to AB everything - in any case a stiffer base plate and improved footers help
Cheers, |
I just found one of the Phillips E180F(SQ) tubes broken on my Grange. Any recommendations as to a substitute pair? Or should I stay with the same brand? I was happy with the sound but did find it on the noisy side. Good tube sources of late?
Thanks,
Crubio |
Pjwd, I am not sure adding hardwood under or over the metal plats is a good idea. According to Mick, the metal surface functions as heat sink. To prevent the metal plats from vibration - I place a small wet special sponge (the type becomes hard when it dries up) on the top and another small piece underneath. At least it gives me a solid sound when I knock the metal part.
Do I hear a difference? Well I can't even tell the difference between different cables. But in this case I think there's better control and clarity. Didn't really bother to do the AB test.
BTW, my AB test is the most reliable way. My better half will switch whatever cable, cones or tweaks without my knowledge in a few weeks or months after my initial craze over it dies. So far I can tell I didn't detect any difference when between cheaper speaker cables, bi-wiring, power conditioner except when the power amp connected to it.
Wonder if I should just stuck to mini compos? |
I have been using SRA VR3 iso bases under my Supratek Cortese preamp and power supply for years with no sign of glare. Just pure sweet music. I use the Berning ZH270 as my amp and no glare issues from it either.
I recently pulled all my more expensive interconnects and replaced them with Acoustic Research Master Series interconnects. The sound is better and the cost for 4 pair of interconnects came to a total of less than $100.
Glad to see the thread continues. |
Ait - you have a good point - although my experience is that isolation under everything - tubes and SS - (even power supplies for TT motors) make a difference as do cables and power supplies - when you drop in the new cable and it is bright ( but more detailed )it may well be isolation or power supply filtering that is needed to solve it rather than another cable - none of us will will ong enough to try out all the permuations of products on offer but it does keep you off the streets - I have ended up with ball bearings for isolation, ribbon cable and actively sheilded power cables with bybees + v caps and alps RK50 pot on cortese - it all sounds pretty good but who knows if another approach would not sound better
Cheers |
I have found that the Zu Varial interconnects and Zu Ibis speaker cables work very well with my Chenin. I have no glare whatsoever, but my Chenin is modded to use 2C22 tubes instead of the often microphonic 6SN7. The 2C22s have no detectable microphonics whatsoever, you can tap on them, rattle the shelf ... nothing. I think microphonics may be a big reason for the glare sometimes heard in systems using 6SN7 tubes, hence the reason improved isolation has such an effect. |
Concerning the glare... I have never heard of it... I am not using cones, just a granite plinth under my sauvignon, and I use Kimber Select 1036 interconnects in my system. I think interconnects are the most important upgrade and you really need top of the class with supratek components to let them perform without compromises. After going to Kimber I couldn't believe that my system could sound that transparent and yet sweet... Its like there is a small brain in there that determines which element to make sweet (vocals) and which to make bright (cymbals). I cant find any sound signature... Everything depends on the source and the recording mastering. I really love my sauvignon :) |
Fiddler,
I appreciate your statement, and actually I'n not surprized about your isolation findings, makes perfect sense to me.
Hopefully, I'm gonna get a Supratek phonostage , Mick is building for me, and I'll try your method. |
Maril, if I criticized you unfairly at any point for your characterization of your Supratek, my apologies.
Prior to my most recent posts, I never suspected that the glare I heard in my system was from my Supratek. I assumed based on the posts of another member here who complained of glare from his Berning that the glare I was hearing was coming from my ZH270 also. He sold his Berning due to this reported glare.
I continued to chase the glare in my Berning with tube changes, power cords, isolation efforts, etc. all to no avail only to discover my Berning wasn't the source of any glare.
The good news is the glare from the bottom plate support of the Supratek was easily remedied and I can't believe the difference. Listening for hours is a pure joy now. The frustration that I experienced trying to the rememdy problem is now just a forgotten memory (ooops, what am I thinking - my memory isn't longer than 20 seconds anyway :)
(Oh, and one more thing. Now I realize that by installing the DACT attenuator and the V-Caps I only exacerbated the glare since my Chardonnay became much more transparent, open and detailed with the modifications.) Now that glare is no longer a problem, I consider the DACT and V-Caps a major benefit with the additional clarity and detail they impart.
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Jtgofish,
"If you have to make physical changes which take more than about 20 seconds you cannot recall accurately the sound prior to the change.That is as long as our sonic memory lasts.
You are just being silly or you have terrible hearing.
By memory I can tell you on any number of cuts where exactly in the soundstage that the guitars, cymbals, typanis, voices, etc. are located with perfect accuracy in relation to the furniture, paintings, windows, speakers, etc. in my room. And I suspect most members here can do the same thing with their systems with music they are intimately familiar with.
Oftentimes a cable change, component change or speaker placement change will definitely alter the soundstage placement of instruments or voices that a three-year-old would notice. And if your system requires that you need to keep your head in a vice because the sound changes that dramatically; you need to rethink your choice of speakers -
"And as I said shifting your head position is likely to change what you hear so unless you have some sort of head clamp then you cannot asses changes properly either."
I would not argue that my aural memory may not be able to recognize or differentiate tonality or pitch changes very readily after a time, but I suspect many musicians might be able to due to their trained ear.
But I can assure you that the glare that was present before changing my preamp isolation is now virtually inaudible. Things like soundstage width, heigth, depth, muddy bass, glare, brightness, etc. all can be easily remembered from one listening session to another. Are you really trying to tell me that you don't think you could recognize glare, hardness, brightness (or however you would describe it) and then not hear the difference if it was absent?
A classic example of aural memory is the accepted "truth" by virtually all accounts that most systems sound better at night due to cleaner power. If we couldn't remember more than 20 seconds how our systems sound then we would never have the experience that our systems sound better at night. We simply couldn't remember the more dry, flat presentation of the daytime as compared to night.
And if you can't remember how a system sounds longer than 20 seconds, you may as well by a Bose surround system and be content. Using the 20 second rule, you should be able to play your current system and 20 seconds later play the Bose system and not tell them apart assuming volume levels are the same.
Hey, I'm ecstatic with what I am hearing since I altered my preamp isolation. If I am simply delusional, so be it. I'll just continue to enjoy my delusion. |
I'm planning to stick some self-adhesive sheets of Soundcoat on the bottom plate of my Chenin main unit and power supply while I have them open to do other upgrades. The plate is a bit flimsy. I figure what the hell, it can't hurt! |
All disbelievers - just try out some vibration reducing tweaks - then report back - dont worry about the theory - prior to Newton you would have fallen off the earth - Fiddlers posts started the current flurry but his posts have always been clear and rational - reporting on experience - it amazes me that people believe in the free market except when it involves audiophiles - BTW if your sonic memory only lasts 20 seconds that should save some money
Cheers |
Fiddler,
I didn't believe my eyes, when I saw you using words "glare" and "Supratek" in the same sentence.
I thought you knew not to use "glare", speaking of Supratek.
I've learned my lesson awhile ago.
It's a miracle, Supratek watchdogs haven't awaken yet. |
Jeff, you might try Lexan first. There are some high-end companies that make isolation products who use Lexan as their material of choice.
If you can't find it nearby, I will cut you a couple of 1/2" shelves to try under your Supratek. I have plenty to spare. |
Jeffjazz and Fiddler,
Well I really have become a bit sceptical about these sorts of tweaks.
You can easily fool yourself into thinking these sorts of changes make a difference.The only way to be sure is to do an A/B comparison but even that is too subjective.
If you have to make physical changes which take more than about 20 seconds you cannot recall accurately the sound prior to the change.That is as long as our sonic memory lasts.
And as I said shifting your head position is likely to change what you hear so unless you have some sort of head clamp then you cannot asses changes properly either.
I own a Supratek Cabernet-the 300B version which I think was the pick of all of them-and I have heard them all. |
Agreed I was thinking of getting some marble cut or some corian. That's a little over the top though. I will purchase some speaker dampening material for the insides of the unit, and try my bike tube underneath
I really love my Supratek. Have had many preamp other than this one, and no one preamp is necessarily best, but this one does it for me. I hope the dampening deepens the soundstage, that is the only weakness (& it is very minor) that my Supratek has. Still sounds better in my system as a whole than any other preamp I have owned. Killer tone! |
Jtgofish,
LOL.
I'm not asking anyone to believe it. Just relating my experience.
If you have a Supratek, easy enough to experiment.
And I think my sonic memory is good enough to last about 5 minutes from one change of footing to the next. Chair in the exact same spot. Exact same music cuts that I have listened to a hundred times.
The difference has been rather significant. And if you know the chassis design of the Supratek, it makes a lot of sense if you think about it.
But I don't expect you to take my word for it. It's easy enough to try.
And believe me, I am not one that falls easily to Audio Nervosa. If I clearly hear a difference, I will say so. On the other hand, I don't try to kid myself either if it's not obvious in my system, no matter how much everyone else is raving about something, I trust my own ears.
As an example, I just auditioned the much hyped Synergistic Research Apex and Precision Reference ICs in my system. The Audio Metallurgy ICs that I have been using were better in every respect except the mid-bass and there it was still close. That's $6,000 ICs against $400 worth of ICs. I can easily afford the SR ICs and if they were better, even modestly so, I would purchase them. But they weren't in my system. Regardless of what the over-whelming consensus has been in the Synergistic thread.
I realize many guys from the Synergistic thread here will find it inconceivable that I found the AM cables better, but once again, that was my experience. I have auditioned a lot of gear in the last couple of years and I haven't made that many changes. I try very hard not to let myself be fooled by the hype of reviews or the popular opinions here that seem to often to be nothing more than hype or Audio Nervosa.
If someone constantly posts positive results about everything new that they audition, (and there are many here who do) that simply sends up a red flag to me. I find it laughable that every 3-6 months some here move on to new components or cables. To me, that's a sign of someone who easily falls prey to Audio Nervosa...and trust me, I ain't one of them.
Think about it, how often to you see guys post to a thread like the Synergistic thread that the "newest and latest and greatest" cable design is "jaw droppng". Well, search their posts and you will see a pattern that EVERYTHING they try turns out to be stunning. If it's a new component or cable, it always turns out to be better. And I believe that's simply nonsense.
So back to the topic at hand. If you have a Supratek, play around with it. It may or may not work in your system, but it is a rather cheap experiment. But more importantly, first examine the chassis of the Supratek and I think you may find rational reasons why the thin, poorly supported metal plate on the bottom of the chassis may be a terrible base to support the preamp to begin with. Simply tap the bottom plate and listen to it vibrate. |
Believe it or don't!
Ever heard or sympathetic vibrations. Websters dictionary.
* Main Entry: sympathetic vibration
* Function: noun
* Date: 1898
: a vibration produced in one body by the vibrations of exactly the same period in a neighboring body.
Your ears are more sensitive than you think.
Ever hear tubes ring, speaker cabinets vibrating at frequencies affecting sonics. Room acoustics. One cable manufacturer actually uses metal shot in their power cables to damp resonances. I was like you and didn't think any of this stuff made sense, but I became a believer. I even used bicycle tubes under my equipment (gonna try this on the Supratek.) I it sounded much better. I didn't think a power cord made a difference in sound quality, but they do, even sometimes more than speaker and interconnect cables.
Hearing is believing. Those metal tops and bottoms on the Supratek sure look great, but they sure do vibrate more than wood or heavy aluminum etc. They need to be damped some way! |
Fiddler,
I find all this very hard to believe.
Have you read articles on sonic memory?
More like the differences you are hearing are subjective or being influenced by your seating or head position. |
Snopro, I tried iso-cups previously and they weren't as good as the cones, but that was using them under the metal plate. I currently use them under my amp, but I may have to try them under my preamp now that I have changed my preamp isolation setup. |
Hi Fiddler, try Herbies iso-cups instead of the cones. Should improve things even more. |
