Preamp Deal of the Century

Kgturner

I noticed that you've placed an order for the new Malbec. How much does it cost?

check out the 6moons mini-review of the new dual cabernet:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/supratek3/dualcabernet.html

looks like mick went back to the 6SN7 & tj 101d combo for the dual model. it's a pretty interesting read. i can't wait til the full review is out.

After having recieved my Supratek 2 years ago; today I recieved a certified letter from the New Jersey Department of Taxation demanding that I pay the state 150.00 "use tax" plus 19.00 in penalties and interest for failure to pay sales tax on a product purchased abroad for use in NJ, after having been handed the customs declarations after the feds took their cut.

Consider this your heads up if you live in NJ and have purchased a Supratek or any other product for that matter, Gov. Corzine is watching and wants to balance the state budget on your back.

Can other states be far behind?

Stevem 1960: thanks for the response...your experience sounds like mine...I did some tube rolling, and sent email to Kevin Covi outlining my results. Here is copy of text sent to him:

"Tried RCA 45's: bigger, rounder, fuller...less focused than PX4's.
Tried Cunningham 45's: but had problem with right channel tube making really weird noises...this must have been my problem before, when I had the Korneff 45 mono amps in the system.
Tried Electro Harmonix 300b: nice. good bass, detail, vocals, better dynamics than PX4 or 45's.
Swapped TJ mesh plates from Welborne 300b's into Grange, and ran EH 300b's in Welborne monos: best yet...best vocals, detail, soundstaging, bass, dynamics etc. May have to pick up another pair at $279 pair new....
Don't know if I will swing the WE300b's...sure would like to try though..."
Based on the above, I went ahead and ordered another pair of TJ premium mesh plates...life is good...

Just received an e-mail from Mick on the Malbec amps. It seems there are going to be two versions of the amp. One is a low power 30wpc version that Mick says will have a sweet sound to it. He says this amp will work fine for most people. This amp will be capable of using various output tubes. The other version is a more high power 100wpc amp. This version will only take KT-88 tubes. Interesting!

Mercedes: I have a Grange and have tried EH-300B; RCA 45; and TJ-300B meshplates. A friend has a Cabernet and has tried the PX4's. We both agree that the TJ-300B sounds best by a big margin! The most significant lift with the TJ is the treble response which becomes sugary sweet and extended. The TJ also sounds much more refined than the EH tube which sounds crude in comparison.

Mick has some Western Electric 300B's, so you should ask him via email if it is significantly better than the TJ meshplates ...

Regards,

Steve M.

Sorlowski,

I have found on my Cortese that the preamp has very little dynamics in the low gain position. The high gain position is much better for me. I also keep the gain knob on the back set to one step below full gain.

My Syrah stopped working one day. Mick was amazingly patient and effective, proposing diagnostics (via e-mail), even sending photographs with little arrows pointing to specific junctions.

It turned out that the rectifier tube had shorted, buring out the toiroidal transformer (!). Very rare. But in this case, alas: very true.

Mick sent me a new one. Gratis. Refused my offers of reimbursement. (I ended up sending him several CDs of music I thought he'd like--although I'd have happily, had he permitted, recompensed him more.)

I used a knowledgeable local amp-builder and technician, Michael Franzen, to install the new transformer and do the troubleshooting, under Mick's remote supervision.

This story indeed has a happy ending: Mick stands behind his products as well as anyone I've ever dealt with, if not better.

Thank you for answer, I was asking in what position (high gain or low gain) Supratek is sounding softer ?
I have not noticed such difference so I'm curious.

Sorlowski,

The low gain position should be when the toggle switches are in the back position. High gain should be in the forward facing position.

in what position of gain switches you preamp sounded softer ?

"unintentionally switched during cleaning"

ahhh! all too well do i know the pleasure and pain of the chrome chassis.

Hi Slowhand / Kgturner

It's my mistake - I didn't check the gain switches. Yes, the left channel was set to high gain (unintentionally switched during cleaning).

Kgturner, thanks for the great tip. I love this forum!

ethifi:

i don't suppose you've got one channel set to high gain and one channel set to low gain? just a thought.

Ethifi,

Have you contacted Mick yet?

I had my Chardonnay for over 18 months now but 2 days ago, it developed a problem - the right channel is much softer than the left channel. I've tried swapping the left and right channel tubes but the right channel is still softer. I thought the preamp was built to last for a long time.
Can anyone offer an explanation? What should I do now?

Who has rolled PX4, 45, and 300B in Grange preamp? I have been running the PX4's that came with my Grange (bought on Audiogon) and am now wondering about tube rolling. Kevin Covi has told me that a lot of folks are using the WE 300B and loving it...He says this is the hot ticket...I would hope so, at the price per pair...Anyone tried RCA 45's, Cunningham 45's, TJ Mesh Plate 300b's, Sophia Electric Princess 300b's? Trial and error tube rolling in this price leauge is expensive, so would love to hear the experiences of others. System is Cain and Cain single horn Ben's with Bailey subwoofer, TNT/SME 4/Koetsu, Opus 21 cd player, Welborne 300b monoblocks. Should I bite the bullet and just get the WE, or...?

When I first bought my Supratek Grange, I was a little concerned about what might happen if my preamp needed a little work, but Mick's website said he would forward schematic to tech, so that served to allay my fears...Wonderful preamp, and the most georgeous piece of equipment I have ever owned....
Well, the time came when I experienced a problem with the system, and I THOUGHT I had it narrowed down to the preamp, so I contacted Mick with questions, one of them being would he recommend anyone in California to take a look at my preamp. He said to contact Kevin Covi in the eastern U.S. I called him on the phone, and he spent an HOUR with me talking over my perceived problem, Supratek design philosophy, etc. Wow! Having been in audio for 25 years, this was quite a suprise that he spent so much time with me, and assured me he would troubleshoot my preamp, and make it right. He also volunteered to set up my preamp to use PX4, 45, AND 300B tubes. Well, long story short, he checked out my preamp, and it was fine. He changed the switches for the tubes, readjusted bias, gave it the once over...Perfecto....AND he turned it around within days, and charged me about 1/2 to 1/3 what any tech would charge (in my opinion). SO! Hope you don't have a problem with your Supratek, but if you do (or think you do) know that there are people like Mick and Kevin Covi who are dedicated to their product and high quality service...A+++

Thanks Kg,

Mick told me a good while back that he thought it would be $2500 to $3500. Hope he keeps it in that ballpark. Please do keep us informed. I have a Berning ZH270 which I love! I may have to try the Melbacs though. Sounds irresistible.

ray & slowhand:

to be honest, mick hasn't set firm pricing yet. before i sent in my deposit, he stated around $3000 so i'm presuming it's on the higher side of the 3. might be foolish of me, but i've learned to trust mick in my dealings with him. once i get a firm price from him, i'll let you all know.

Hi Kgturner,

How much are the Malbecs? They sound like some great amps.

Kgturner,Congrats!How much is a pair?Hope your wait is not too long!I will be looking forward to your impressions when you recieve the Malbecs !!!They sure sound interesting!Ray

i just sent in my deposit for a pair of malbec monoblocks. mick said there's been a lot of interest so i have no idea how long it will be before they're delivered. i made it 8 months waiting for my chardonnay so i've learned how the be patient. i can't wait to hear these amps and how well they'll likely synergize with the chardonnay. naturally i'll post any and all impressions once i receive them. has anybody else pulled the trigger on the malbecs yet?

Hello,
I have carried out interesting test:

I have connected with Cardas Golden reference XLR cable my Clayton M100 monoblocks and AudioAreo Capitole MKII CD and listen for a while. Pretty lifeless no glitter at all.

Less audio gear in the chain should be better is it not!

Later I have connected Clayton and AA Cap with Silversmith Silver and Audiomagic Excalibur II RCA cables to Supratek Chenin.

What a difference better dynamic better harmonics, music was back.



I did such test 2 years ago with stock tubes and outcome was not that clear.

But know with NOS tubes there is huge difference even in my very bad room.

regards
Slawomir

I got a pair of Sovtec KT66 and tried them in my Chardonnay.
They made a big improvement in the soundstage, they just opened it up wide. They are really nice, looks great also.

I have had my Syrah for almost two years now and have had no problems with it except for an intial problem with the fuse in the power supply. Mick told me to get a larger fuse and that solved the problem You also need to get a moving coil cartridge. My moving magnet sounded unlistenable with it. Mick recommended the Denon DL 103 for $200.00 and it sounds unbelievably good.

Remember, the phono preamp has a 2.5 mV input ceiling. Mick told me that for higher output cart(>2.5mV) such as an MM, you can try it and see for yourself what happens but he does not recommend it. It is possible that your MM cart was saturating the input signal resulting to "un-listenable" sound as you put it. YMMV

I have had my Syrah for almost two years now and have had no problems with it except for an intial problem with the fuse in the power supply. Mick told me to get a larger fuse and that solved the problem You also need to get a moving coil cartridge. My moving magnet sounded unlistenable with it. Mick recommended the Denon DL 103 for $200.00 and it sounds unbelievably good.

Hi Colin: The Grange is fantastic ...the LAST preamp you will ever aspire to, it doesn't get any better!

Regards,

Steve M.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1146370182&read&3&4&

Hello Indigorose,

Congratulations, and welcome to the club! You are going to LOVE the Grange. I have a friend that has one. It is a true work of art and sounds fantastic! Please be sure to let us know your impressions. It should sound wonderful right out of the box, but keep in mind that there is a break in period of a couple hundred hours. Just enjoy this time and let the Grange work it's magic. It will only get better.

Where do you live?

Woo hoo! It's finally coming. I got the email from Mick that my Grange is being shipping. It's been pretty tough to wait it out - but I'm finally joining the club!

Colin

Hi Guys,
neither tube rush or hum are problems.
Just the emphasis on surface noise through the Syrah
as compared to the Quicky.
Can't be the turntable set up and with the gain
levels set my cd volume is pretty much
as I would expect , the phono needs a tad more
volume.
It's not the end of the world, just a bit annoying.

Dilly - like the idea of a cheap tube tester but I've
found that even tubes that test well sometimes go noisy
after a few days or weeks use.
I think Mick gives good advice about tubes - I've
wasted a lot of money on NOS tubes.
Nice as some of them sound, there not much use when
they die after a few days !

Simon

Simon74, Slowhand, Amandarae Thanks very much for the valuable advise. I will play around with a few cords.

I took Amandarae's tip on the Sovetek KT66 tubes & got a pair 3 days back from Tube Store. WOW ! I simply did not expect this much improvement. The difference is more than my move to the expensive W.E.300B tubes for my amps. There are improvements in ALL areas of the sound. I too use horns, Mauhorns/Lowthers. Makes me wonder if my previous EH6L6 stock tubes were dying out!

This again makes me think that all Tubes equipment users
should have a Tube Tester handy( I don't have one ). Any ideas on where I can find one which does 300B, 6SN7 etc? This may also be a good business idea if someone can market a 'new production' cheap tube tester!
Cheers,

Simon,

I'm also running a Denon 103R at 0.25mv on my Syrah, and I have more gain than I would ever use, and the hum and tube rush are both non-noticable when music is playing.

It sounds like something fishy...

Hello Simon74,

I have the ZYX Yatra cartridge with .24mv in my system with my Supratek Cortese. I have more than enough gain with no noise problems. Granted the phono stage is not as quiet as some ss phono preamps, but it is much more musical than most. Pretty much the same way LP's may not be as quiet as cd's, but I find them to be much more musical.

Hello Simon,

I am using a Denon 103R (0.25mV). My Chenin was set to Low gain. The phono section currently have the Mullard M8080 and Siemens 6922. I have plenty of gain! The phono gain knobs(pair) are just 1/3 setting and I can get 89 to 90 dB SPL with the linestage volume control to almost half. That is a lot! I have no tube rush or hum. I can put the phono knobs at max (both) and linestage max and cannot hear the hiss (all tubes does you are right) at about 4 feet away from a 90-91 dB sensitivity midrange driver actively driven of my Orions. If I placed my ear next to the speakers, yes there's some tube rush but no hum. That's it.

I think, its either you have a very noisy phono tubes or the FET input is out of whack. Just my opinion of course.

Goodluck

Anyone have any idea of the typical gain delivered by the stage in the Syrah ?
Mick replied with an explanation about pre/power matching etc but no figures & try a higher output cartridge.
I set my Syrah's gain to the highest I can without any tube rush and surface noise is a real pain with any of my tables.
I put them thru the Quicksilver step up & stage and the surface noise vanishes
to my mind that means the Quicksilver has more gain?
Not keen to buy a higher output cartridge, I already went for broke on a zyx and went for the Syrah as it's supposed to be ideal for low outputmc's. I didn't think 0.24mV was mega low in any case.
I love the pre and the internal phonostage is fine if just
a bit overhyped imo but I really hate hearing surface noise
to this extent when it's never been a problem in my system before now.
Anyone know if it's possible to change resistors or the like to up the gain in the Syrah??
Rgds Simon

I too had experimented with PS Audio, Shunyata, Virtual Dynamics, VH Audio, MIT, and Nordost. Fortunately for me, I found my "cord" with this http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopexd.asp?id=351 I followed the "Asylum Power Cord" recipe from the late Bob Crump and bought the connectors for it from here http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=78&cat=Schurterand http://www.takefiveaudio.com/mall/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=73&cat=Furutech

I am pretty sure that "different strokes for different folks" applies but for less than $100, I think it is a no brainer to try this recipe.

I am not affiliated to the manufacturer/store mentioned above.

Hi Dilly,

I have found that I really like the Michael Wolff Carbon Ribbon Gain power cord with my Cortese.

Hi Dilly,

I have a Syrah and have been through about a dozen
power cords, most of the Shunyata, a few Electraglides,
PS Audio,Z-squared,HMS & Oyaide.
In my system, imo the Harmonix Studio Master I am using
now is really nice with the Syrah.
Just sounds right - if I replace it, I always
end up going back to it.
Rgds Simon

Been using the Chardonnay with an ordinary power cord ( a Linn stock PC I think ) for awhile and have now thought of trying something decent. I can’t remember reading any comments on this topic. I would appreciate if you can share your experiences in this regard & your views on the best PC’s which works for Suprateks.
Thanks

Happy listening!

>>Mick names all his amps and preamps after types of wines<<

Well sort of. Actually he names them after grapes with the exception being the Grange which is named after Australia's most famous wine "Grange Hermitage". It is made entirely from the syrah grape. The syrah grape is inexplicably called shiraz in Australia.

Authentic Hermitage originated and is made in the Northern Rhone Valley. It is also made from the Syrah grape which is the only grape allowed (by French law) to be used in that region. It is one of the longest lived wines in the world and in good vintages ages well for a century or more.

Hi Pablovila,

Mick names all his amps and preamps after types of wines. I am no wine expert, so I have never heard of Malbec, but it is a type of wine. Just type it into google and read all about it.

Hi Amandarae:

Where do you buy the Sovteks? I am using the Sylvanias 6F6G and I want to try the Sovteks.

Here you go!
http://thetubestore.com/sovtekkt66.html

Hi Amandarae:

Where do you buy the Sovteks? I am using the Sylvanias 6F6G and I want to try the Sovteks.

Hi Slowhand:

Did Mick tell you how he came up with that name for the KT-88? Nice name!

Dbarger, that just was my impresion of it. It was like not even the gain controls could control it, the microphonics were so bad.

Thanks for the tip on the Sovteks, I will order a couple to try.

I have a Chardonnay on order, since 5/3, and am looking forward to it. But I am curious how something can have "runaway dynamics"? Never heard of that. Edgy is one thing, but it is not an increase in dynamics. And 6SN7's definitely can have microphonic issues which I have experienced, but in no way does it make it more dynamic or harsh, just... well, microphonic. How can it become too dynamic?

Well, I have about 60 hours on my Chardonnay now, and a couple nights ago it started sounding SUPER dynamic, real edgegy and hard.
I played with the gain controls for a while but they didn't help.
So I just turn it off and when to bed. I didn't want to start rolling tubes yet, but I suspected microphonics.
I am not sure why it would have just started after 60 hours when they should be getting better, not worse.
Anyway the next night I decided to roll the 6sn7, so I replaced the stock ones with a pair of RCA I had been using in my previous preamp, a AE3 DJH.

Well that did it, they tamed it dowm nicely, no more edgey runaway dynamics. Everything just smooth out and nice.
Now I cann't wait to roll the other tubes. I have some Golden Dragon Kt66 laying around I will try.
I know they may not be worth the effort but what the hell, they cann't be worse. Can they!!
Allanblissett (Answers)

Since you are on it, maybe you want to try the Sovtek KT-66 as regulators. I tried the Genalex Gold Lion(thin sound), the regular GEC KT66 dark and clear glass(clear but bass is bloated), the 6F6G Sylvania (great bass, so and so mids), Tungsol 5881 (dark overall, big bass, not great in detail which made horn sound rounded at the ends), RCA 6L6GC (balance overall but everything sounds mellow), but the Sovtek that Mick suggested seems to sound right to me. Although it took about 50 hours for the tube to settle.

One more thing, I used to have a little hiss on both channels with all the other regulators I was using. With the Sovtek, the hiss on both channel are now gone! I do not know why but I have 4 pairs of original Tungsol 5881 that I paid big $$$$$ for and the GEC tubes I bought from Europe which I already sold and all of these plus other regulators for some reason makes hiss but not the Sovtek. Weird, but thats my story in my system only of course.

Well, I have about 60 hours on my Chardonnay now, and a couple nights ago it started sounding SUPER dynamic, real edgegy and hard.
I played with the gain controls for a while but they didn't help.
So I just turn it off and when to bed. I didn't want to start rolling tubes yet, but I suspected microphonics.
I am not sure why it would have just started after 60 hours when they should be getting better, not worse.
Anyway the next night I decided to roll the 6sn7, so I replaced the stock ones with a pair of RCA I had been using in my previous preamp, a AE3 DJH.

Well that did it, they tamed it dowm nicely, no more edgey runaway dynamics. Everything just smooth out and nice.
Now I cann't wait to roll the other tubes. I have some Golden Dragon Kt66 laying around I will try.
I know they may not be worth the effort but what the hell, they cann't be worse. Can they!!

Just received an e-mail from Mick. He says the name of the new KT-88 amp is Malbec. The amps will have a gain control which will help it match to any system and it will have a feedback control to help it match to various speakers. My Berning amp has this also. This is a nice feature as it helps control the woofer for tighter bass.