Hpdhondo, I would not worry about getting into tubes because, in my opinion, it's not that big a deal. I have been using tube preamps for twenty years and have never had any problems with them. You may need to replace the tubes occasionally. I have used tube amps for 15 years and have had a tube blow or become noisy a few times and replacing the tube solved the problem. Tube amps require more fiddeling if you have to reset the bias periodically, but tube preamps only require fresh tubes occasionally. I know very little about their innerworkings, I just like the way they play music.
I have a Syrah also; it's a very nice preamp. If you can, go for it. |
Hpdhondo, forget about the reading and get on with the listening. If you really want to know how to start with tubes it is only through the "experience". It's like a virgin reading or viewing pornography to experience a love relationship. There is no substitute for touchy feely contact.
Where did I start? When I first heard a high end tube system that touched my emotions, this after a long haitus from tubes. I haven't looked back since. |
i think i sent a deposit off around the beginning of september |
Hi5Harry... when did you order your syrah? |
Rayhall,
thank you for your decent review and shed the light on this issue. I do concurent with your opinion on presence audio preamp. |
my syrah pre is scheduled for delivery on 03-03-03. i think i already got $2500 worth the fun reading these posts! the only problem is iv'e blown about $400.00 on nos tubes just to have something to get me thru the agony of the 6 month wait.i was wondering how long the phono section takes to break in,i don't know if my aged koetsu & i can take it! |
I have read these threads and I must say that the excitement all you Supratek owners have is a little infectious. I have been an avid music lover but have always listened to SS. Lately, however, I have become very curious about tube components. I would love to just buy the Syrah right now just from everyone's glowing reviews here. If I did, I don't think I could go wrong. What's stopping me is the feeling that I should get to know more about tube systems and I really don't know where to start. Could some of you tell me where I should begin to find out more about this subject. Where did you guys start and where would I find good info on the subject. (if there is any) |
I have a question for users of the Syrah and Cortese.
How long do these units take from being turned on at the power outlet to reaching their optimal listening conditions? |
Noble, on the volume knob being tight: mine too at first. I think its the change in humidity from AUST to here and the wood expanding. Its loosened up over time. I also treat the wood weekly with a quality furniture cream (not oil).
Noble, I also have a AirTight amp with Syrah, and the Syrah shows that the AirTight is not as complex in harmonics as it should be (and outfitted with NOS Mullards and WE300B's it should be very complex). This is a house sound I believe with AirTight and many other Japanese tube amp makers; the Jap tube market, drawn also to the dynamics of horns, IMHO tends also to give a little up in core harmonics to get that dynamic projection quality (AudioNote Kondo IC's/Spkr wire have same dynamic/harminic balance/signature).
Aside from changing amps, I have worked on the Syrah tube complement. I ended with Tungsol round plates for the 6SN7, but could easily live with the Black Kens. Also, the rectifier effects sound appreciably; I have an RCA-marked Coke bottle Mullard in there now and find it far superior to the 6 or so others I tried. The past Supratek distributor sent me this one, so if you want to know about it he's probably the best place to start (I'll send you his e-mail if you contact me). On isolation, bwhite I'm sure is correct, but I have mine on a Rix Rax stand I designed and it doesn't seem to matter after that. However, airborne-sourced tube microphonics have been significantly effected by tube dampers. I tried several and in all locations and the Shun Mook small valve resonators on the rectifier and on each 6SN7 did the trick for me, and especially versus others on the harmonic/naturalness issue. I just got a matched pair of Tungsol JAN 5881's and have been running them for about two weeks. My impression is very sweet, has led to slight melodic integration (better playing together, so to speak, again one of the AirTight's small weaknesses) between players, and even between hands on the piano, but dynamics compressed and voice has lost some presense, in sense that projection qualities of voice are diminished. Image size slao diminished, and too much. Hard call, but even with my marked toleration for lushness, I do not like compression. We'll see, but I think the image issue will break their back eventually.
I owned a CAT MkII for a year, so can't comment on the Ultra differences with Supra, but I always found the CAT resistant to changes/mods/rolling etc. That's good for most people, but I like to have some latitude to go farther. As I said, for many guys out there, and considering the phono that might get them into that, its a no-brainer, in that context. And thats what excited me.
Still would like to hear from you guys on PC's if you worked that at all.
Good luck. |
A side note to Rayhall/Timchens exchanges: I have heard the CAT/Symphonic Line combo & it's nothing short of outstanding. Judging by the consensus on how the Syrah sounds in different systems, it could be similar in many ways to a CAT (but that's just deductive logic on my part...) |
Rayhall,
Yes, please e mail me. I have used presence audio 2.0 MKII for a while with my Symphonic Line, but I always wonder how Cat compare with it?
The Syrah remain a mystery for me? I have no way of hearing it!!
thanks |
Based on this thread recommendations I rolled the stock tubes to Tung Sol 6L6WGB ( 5881 ) and Ken Rad Black 6SN7 V231.
This change made a HUGE improvement and brought the performance closer to my expectations of the sound of a high-end pre. Prior to the change the presentation was "thin". This is difficult to describe but I noticed the lack of "depth" immediatly, and actually thought about selling it, but decided to give it a fair trial with improved tubes.
I have compared to the ARC REF 1 , ARC REF2 MkII, Hoveland HP1000, and the new MacIntosh. PRior to the tube rolling, I would not have placed the SYRAH in the same class as these great preamps, however after the tube upgrade the presentation moved into the same league. Each of these preamps has a unique sound and quite a different soundstage presentaton, so difficult to say one is better than another.
The Syrah's dynamics are outstanding, clarity is excellent, but the soudstage is much further back than one might expect from typiucal tube preamps. The phono is especially nice.
I have Air Tight ATM3 mono amps and Genesis speakers. These amps do reflect each component upstream, and I was surprised and how different each of the preamps sound, especially in soundstage presentation. So for the price, the Syrah is an outstanding value. The weakness on mine is specific to the selector control being very difficult to rotate. Anyone have a suggestion on how to improve the selector movement?? |
Hey Tim,
I'd prefer a one-round fight with all contenders in the ring slugging it out in the middle of the ring together, or dueling in the same corral, as I am mixing metaphors. Can anyone else supply some of the other preten..., uhhh contenders and the venue? If you want to know how the First Sound sounds vs. the CAT, Tim, I'll email you separately. Don't want to color anyone else's opinion here. |
Rayhall,
I will love to hear this shootout!! how about the shootout between CAT and presence for the first round?
thanks |
Alright! Who has this preamp,lives in NYC (preferably Manhattan) and would be interested in conducting a preamp shootout? I have a CAT SL-1 Ultimate and a First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II 4.0 with dual power supplies. Let me know what the rest of your system is and where you are located. I would also be interested in hearing the Lamm L-2 and the Emotive Audio Sira. Also, bring along your H-CAT P-12. |
I ordered mine oct. 1 and am still waiting.............. The wait is brutal. ope to hear from Mick soon! |
SLOWHAND, WHERE CAN I GET THE HAL-O-TUBE DAMPERS
MIKE |
Hi all. have been away from this forum for awhile. Just received my 2nd Cortese and it is even better than the last.
Mick seems to have settle on only two tubes in the line stage. Not as much gain, but less tube noise thus less messing with fussy tubes.
I don't know if any of you have followed Mick's recommendation and tried any of The Music Cables cabling from Australia. Well I have and they are truly amazing. Very well built, very very quiet (they use a solid copper shield-return), and as nuetral sounding cable as I have had the pleasure to listen through.
An incredible marriage with the Cortese (going in and out).
And they are really affordable. King, the owner/designer was very helpful with his recommendations as to what cable to use where. And he offers a money back guarantee. It took about 7-10 days to arrive from Austalia. Try them, they really are a state of the art product!
www.the-music-cable.com |
Has anyone compared the Suprateks to the CAT SL 1 Ultimate. These two are on my short list.
Thanks |
Mick advised me it would be at least five months to ship me a Syrah preamplifier. I asked him a couple of days ago. |
The Syrah ordered in June has finally arrived! Beautifull construction. Any suggestions on amount of break-in required?? |
Now try Herbies Tenderfoot isolation feet. They are just as amazing. I put them under every component and the clarity increased dramatically. |
Slowhand, thanks again for the tip on the HAL-O tube dampers, my order arrived earlier today and it really works on the 6SN7s. In my opinion it is a "must have" for all Supratek preamps which are proned to tube noise. The improvement is audibly noticeable right away.
It is very reasonably priced also and they ship pretty darn fast, great service overall. |
Well, I've had mine and still am in love with it. After my speakers, it is my most important piece.
I have not compared it to other pre's in it's price class or higher. I completely believe people who say the Audio Note has even more to offer but it's out of my price range.
Theresa-I only play CD's right now but I got the Syrah so I would have the option to try out vinyl after I restocked the music fund. The extra $400 is less than a good phono stage in the future.
Alot has been written about the glories of the KenRad black glass tubes in the Supratek. I have a good pair and agree with almost everything that has been said of them. However, in my system they are only second best. For me and my ears, my Pearl Cryoed Brimar CV/1988 are best. More top extension, as good or better lows, set a blacker background, and have crystal-clear detail without losing musicality. I have a NOS pair on the way that are not cyroed. I can't wait to hear if I can tell the difference.
BTW, I saw a very nice pair of the KenRads go for a whopping $260 on ebay the other day. Holy Mackeral. Wish I had put the 401(k) all into KR BG about 3 years ago.
Regards,
Patrick |
Any news on Mick's status - is he still overwhelmed with back orders and still doing all the work alone? I'm considering getting the Syrah, wondering if those of you who already purchased are still so overwhelmingly enthusiatic about Mick's work? (And Thanks, I've appreciated all the info in this thread!)
Also - I posted this question in the topic on ARC preamps but may get a better response here - any opinions on using an ARC LS8MkII with PH3 versus the Syrah? |
How are the Cortese linestage tubes wired. Is is one tube per channel or does Mick use one triode section of each tube for the left and right channel? |
Hi Theresa, I would say it is a worthy investment, point being is you probably will not upgrade your preamp for a long long time, like most of us in this thread. I have the Chardonay myself and if your willing to deal with the waiting and the little quirks here and there you will be rewarded.
Until now my Chardonay somehow never ceases to amaze me everytime I listen to it. |
Would this pre-amp be a good investment for someone who only uses a CD player and power amp? I am assuming I would need only the Chardonnay? |
Thanks for the info Rockhead. I recently had my phono stage reconfigured for low output MC (which is the way Mick normally ships the Syrah). I had him ship mine for high output MC. I am using a Dynavector 20XL MC with .25mv output (which is pretty low), but this phono stage still has tons of gain. I do not want the sound to suffer though as it sounds fantastic as is, so I will not reduce the gain. Thanks again. |
Slowhand,
I have the Syrah with the adjustable gain. I use it at max gain 98% of the time as this is the mode that sounds best to me. I occassionally turn it down a notch or 2 on cd's that are poorly recorded as it seems to reduce hash and glare. I have found that turning down the gain then increasing the volume to compensate does indeed make the sound suffer. |
You all know of the big falling out between Peter and Kondo some years ago. I have heard both sides of the story and cannot decide who is at fault if anyone. I am inclined to believe it is language difficulties. At any rate I find both the Kondo M100 and Audio Note M6 preamps outstanding as you might expect given the parts quality that goes into them. Having had a Syrah, I definitely think it is an excellent buy although the H-Cat at $2995 is clearly better. |
I have a question for anyone who has one of the newer Syrah preamps with the adjustable gain control. Do you find that using this control affects the sound of the preamp negatively. Mick said that he put the control on the newer preamps because some people could not get enough range on the volume control because of the high gain of the phono stage. Dropping the gain gives more usable range on the volume, but he feels that the sound can suffer. I would like to hear from those who have this control on their preamps. Thanks. |
Hi Rmml, the hal-o-tube dampers are well worth the price. They only cost $11.50 each, and have done a very good job of calming the microphonics. All the dynamics and musicality of the tubes are still in tact. The rings are worth their modest cost. |
Slowhand, let us know what you think of the Hal-O-Tube dampers,I'm thinking about ordering some myself. |
I have only listened to the Ongaku and lesser Audio Note units such as the M1 line preamp. My Audio Note advisor tells me he prefers the Kondo built M7 preamplifier (w/phono onboard) over the UK M3 > M6 preamplifiers. There is, or was, a Kondo M7 phono for sale on audiogon for 7500/offer. They are an excellent used value; still very expensive for the top of the line Kondo stuff. |
I just recently got an Audio Note M6 with phono and separate step up transformer. It is clearly better than the Cortese that I had. But... it should be for the retail price of $20K. The instruments have more depth and sound more natural and there are no annoying hums or tube rush. Extremely quiet. The least expensive transformer coupled AN pre is the M3. It is important to note that AN makes all the transformers for these transformer coupled pre's and the M6 uses silver wired ones. No one has the knowledge that they have when it comes to high end parts. |
Mick advised that my Syrah is ready to ship!!! This was ordered mid - June, so 5 months was the backlog. I am looking forward to the Syrah and will express my impressions here. |
yep, and there is that sweeeet lookin audionote M7 from singapore on the classifieds right now. would love to hear what that sounds like... |
c12366 I hoping to hear these comments also. The person who sold his Supratek on this thread went to the Audio Note pre |
anybody here have experience with audio note preamplifiers and that might be able to comment on supratek vs audio note? |
Decided to throw my hat in the ring. Today I ordered a SupraTek Cortese linestage from Mick. I'm sure it'll be 4-6 months till it is completed. This will be my first piece of tube equipment. Hopefully, I can get off this upgrade merri-go-round soon. After I buy this preamp, a new power amp, power cords for each, and interconnects.
OT, but I wonder if Audiophilia could be classified as a disability and compensated for in some fashion under the American w/Disabilities Act. Even a tax write-off would be nice. |
Mike: Thanks for the suggestion. That may not work for me in light of my configuration, but I'll get out my measuring tape and see. |
Schacter, I had the same problem with my Cortese. the solution (and necessary move to eliminate noise) was to place Pwr Supply on the floor next to the rack. You want the Pwr Supply (and for that matter any other strong magnetic-field producing device as far away from the pre amp as possible. I asked Mick to send my Cortese with an extra long embilical cord connecting the two pcs. I ordered a small (size) Stelf Shelf from Symposium to place the Pwr supply on. All really works well. You may have to re-arrange your gear on your rack to find the most noise-free arrangement, but it is worth all the effort. |
Ads, I´m going to try the combination Cortese-KR Kronzilla. This are dual mono-blocks 100+100 Watts RMS using two KR 1610 tubes per amp in parallel. I don´t have it with me yet but in the seller´s opinion "this Amps give the wonderful SET musicality with the power to run real speakers. Have supurb bass and smooth, delicate highs and midrange.
The 1610 tubes run very cool, have tremendous tube life and give wonderful musicality with much tighter bass and focus than 300B tubes".
I asked Mick and he told me that he has in his home a similar combination (Cortese-KR VT8000) and that it works very well. |
Slowhand, sorry for not responding. I have been out of commission with oral surgery (still am actually). TWL pretty much took care of it though.
Be back in a few more days. |
I've been following this thread for a few months and have emailed back and forth with Mick. I'm very tempted to order the Syrah preamp (or conceivably even the Cortese) but a practical issue keeps intruding. The dimensions of the preamp and power supply (hwd) seem to require quite a bit of rack real estate and I'm trying to figure out of there's a trick to getting a normal rack to accomodate these units. I have a fairly typical 20" (or so) wide Salamander rack, which means that the units, which are 13" wide, can't sit side by side. Plus they need eight inches of vertical clearance, so that means two full shelves and the shelves have to be moved up/down to accomodate these things, thereby intruding on the other equipment. Am I missing something? Is there a way to configure the preamp and power supply to fit and leave room for everything else?
Thanks |
Asa, coming from the pro audio arena where SS rules (except for the mic pre's and compressors where we are looking to tame digital) I've been extremely happy with my ALL Spectral/Avalon system for many years.
Had my friend not pick up on a used Cortese and introduced it to me, I'd still be there. But as yo know for yourself, once you experience what Mick's creation can do for music enjoyment, you're hooked (at least to Mick's gear). I was curious as whether there is an amp out there that would make a similar improvement to my enjoyment. I know Mick is talking about some 100W babies and if they were available now, I'd order them sight unheard. I'm that confident with what he is doing, but they aren't and according to Mick it may be a very very long time before he can resume that project as he is so busy building pre's for all of us. I thank you for you candid comments and most likely will retain the DMA360's. They are incredible amps! |
Ads, I'm a tube guy, but if you like the Spectral/Supratek combo, I'd be hard pressed to find an alternative; I think that you might miss that iron fist authority of the Spectral's and their vanishingly low "noise floor". On the other hand, if that was the case, then I'd expect that you would have hated the noise of analog too, so somewhat perplexed what to recommend. When bwhite was putting some gear together, I recommended the 100W LAMM 1.1 monos. They're hybrid tube input, SS out and everyone i know has loved them. bwhite hasn't said much about them to me, but you might ask him. Apart from that, you'd be into a ton-o-tubes and I don't think that's the right move for you right away.
What did you have in mind: stay with SS, $ to spend, etc.? |
Jeff,I recenlty bit the bullet and joined the many others with the addition of the Cortese to my previously all SS system (Spectral). It is the most rewarding thing I've done is the last 10 years! Not only am I now enjoying music reproduction like never before, but I have rediscovered vinyl which has totally made me rethink how digital will play in my system. How ever long the wait may be for your Syrah, wait. You will not be disappointed.
Now i have question for all the Supratek pre owners participating in this thread. I have Avalon spks (88db), presently drivinng them with Spectral DMA360 mono blocks and am very pleased with their performance (now that that the Cortese is driving them). But since I was so blown away by the improvement that the Cortese made when it was introduced into the system, I am wondering if you have any reccommendations for an amp(s) for my system. Power is a requirement (certainly a minimum of 100w per ch) |
I've read most of this tread in the last three days. So glad I stumbled upon it. Have been thinking of introducing a tube pre into my system to mellow it out (reduce brightness) and generally improve the sound. Was considering Audible Illusions but from what I've read the Syrah must be better. Would a Syrah work well with a Musical Fidelity A3.2cr amp? Speakers since July will need to change soon too (Monitor Audio 9i} but they were a big improvement over what I've been using the last 15 years. So much so that I listen to music just about every day now. |
