Oppo is not far better.
Happy Listening!
Happy Listening!
Reference disc player...UDP 205 or Marantz?
Hey guys....
I've decided to take the plunge, and get my last reference disc player--at least for a very long time--and I'm looking for opinions on the subject.
I really wanted to get the Marantz SA-14S1, it sounds fantastic for sure, but I started to read all the glowing reviews on the Oppo UDP-205. Is it just hype, or the real thing? Is the Oppo really that rare piece of equipment that punches that far above its price? Who here has listened to the oppo and/or the Marantz? How do they compare?
Thanks!
I've decided to take the plunge, and get my last reference disc player--at least for a very long time--and I'm looking for opinions on the subject.
I really wanted to get the Marantz SA-14S1, it sounds fantastic for sure, but I started to read all the glowing reviews on the Oppo UDP-205. Is it just hype, or the real thing? Is the Oppo really that rare piece of equipment that punches that far above its price? Who here has listened to the oppo and/or the Marantz? How do they compare?
Thanks!
140 responses Add your response
@Jafant, "I was disappointed w/ the Oppo 105D after reading so many glowing reviews. No matter if the source was a MacBook in streaming mode or shiny silver discs. I can say that if one is looking for a one-box solution-this is it." I dont understand, did you mean to say that "I was NOT disappointed ... "? ( IMO that would make more sense in the context) Anyway .... Someone have mentioned this, but I would have to take back everything I said above IF THE OPPO HAD THE FULL MODWRIGHT TUBE MODS. http://www.modwright.com/index.php# I mean, in tube-modded form and PSU, the Oppo is a Beast. I think the tube mods and external Power Supply runs $1750 for the ’95 and $2500 for the 105 and 205. I can be critical with Oppo, but they do provide a piece of audio that can act as a raw material or score to be modded and interpreted by 3rd parties ... e.g. Modwright. So a new Oppo 205 with Modwright mods will run about $3800+ tax/ship. That would be a great, long-lasting investment. Last, OP may want to look for a used Electrocampianet multi disc player. When I sold the Oppo and was looking for a multi disc player that could get me a level higher in my audio chain, but not at the $2500 range that I could not afford at the time. I forget the Electrocampianet model, but it is basically, if I recall correctly, almost just like the Oppo 95 but just more robust all the way around in its hardware and SQ. [But again, to be fair to Oppo, they really have created some great break through products in terms of quality at a humble price point, and very good value with the 95/105/205 series] |
1graber2, bobheinatz, Exactly my fears in a nutshell, and why I started this thread. I guess I should have just bought the damn thing like everyone else that was curious, and then return it when I discover the truth. Again, I’m certain its a very good sounding player, and many people will enjoy the heck out of it, but I’m looking for something more. And I need multi format compatibility. |
All I can say is that the only thing greater than my anticipation of the Oppo 95 on its way to me in the mail, was the disappointment I had after all my high expectations were crushed by reality. I sold it a few months later. And to be fair, the Oppo 95 (and also the 105 and 205 b/c of the same line of models) is a jack of all trades that does many things well, but none particularly well. I believed all the hype. What I learned is that running audio and video out of the same box for $1000 will not get me the results I had expected. |
Ok I have not heard the Oppo but I will give you my take. I own a Rega Isis cdp. This is a top of the line player and believe me I still can't believe how it competes with my very good vinly system. Well the Isis needed a repair that would take 2 - 3 weeks and I used the then budget darling Sony Playstation 1 box. Just like the Oppo it was touted as a giant killer sounding as good as any $3000 player. For the 3 week period I actually enjoyed the Playstation but when I inserting the Rega Isis I then realized how broken sounding the Playstation really was. Perhaps rhe Oppo is the new playstation. By it self it sounds quite good but when compared to a quality cdp only it sound inly ok. |
I just went to the BIS label site and I can find no information regarding what you describe. Perhaps you are misunderstanding the way the label records versus encodes the SACD. The BIS SACD page does indicate they record in high resolution PCM. Then they encode the PCM as DSD on SACD. If I'm mistaken, please give me an example of what you're referring to because I'm interested in what these discs are. SACD is encoded as DSD, in all circumstances. That's what makes it an SACD. There is no high resolution PCM on an SACD. I think we can agree that an SACD-hybrid disc CAN have cd quality audio as an additional layer, but not higher than cd 44.1/16 bit quality. |
On this I am not confused. Yes, every SACD has a standard resolution CD layer, I am not talking about this CD layer, this allows an SACD to be played on standard CD players. Certain classical labels offer SACD’s with their Hi-Rez stereo layer in PCM, BIS Records is one such label. Channel Classics, another state of art label, offers all their SACD’s in DSD, again we are talking about the Hi-Rez stereo layer. |
@vahes, What are PCM SACDs? I think you are confusing with either of the following: 1. SACD has a CD layer OR 2. Original recording was in PCM that was converted to DSD for SACD. In either case the player will ALWAYS play the SACD layer, when a SACD is inserted. But, say, if you inserted a CD or a Bluray, then the player will automatically recognize the PCM data, since DSD data was not detected, and play appropriately. You don't have to manually do anything. I have defaulted my SACD to stereo and the player does fine. Enjoy your player and most importantly, the music! |
Thanks again, I am slowly getting used to this players setup routines, I am almost there. I listen primarily to classical, I have good many DSD’s and also an equal number of PCM SACD’s. Once I setup for DSD I am assuming that the player’s front display will indicate DSD just to be certain. If the next SACD to be played happens to be PCM will the player automatically recognize the format or I need to change the DSD to PCM? And yes, the remote control has a button, #13-AUDIO-Change Audio Language or Channel. |
I believe it is the "audio" button on the remote. I think that's what it is my Oppo BDP-105D. Nevertheless, there IS a button for it that brings up an onscreen display that allows you to navigate to an alternate layer. Again, if you are playing music in stereo, there is little to no reason to change the default playing area. So far so good, the only remaining question is PCM/DSD. On page 60 this is discussed but the choices listed are for HDMI output, in my case I do not want to mess with HDMI but instead use analog two channel RCA outputs If you re-read page 60 and 61, you'll see that the choice made for "SACD Output" affects BOTH hdmi AND analog outputs. If you would like to have direct DSD to analog audio conversion, then you would select "DSD." As I described, previously, a selection of "PCM" would convert DSD to PCM before conversion by the internal DAC of the Oppo. The "auto" selection under this heading is more geared toward someone using the hdmi output for audio delivery to an external processor. |
Thanks for your comments; Yesterday I contacted OPPO Customer Service and received the following reply; “Under playback setup you will change SACD Priority from Multi Channel to Stereo. The player will then playback the Stereo layer or a SACD”. I also checked the layout of remote control, there are 35 buttons listed but I do not see any button for selecting the SACD Stereo layer on the remote. So far so good, the only remaining question is PCM/DSD. On page 60 this is discussed but the choices listed are for HDMI output, in my case I do not want to mess with HDMI but instead use analog two channel RCA outputs. |
I just took a quick peek at the manual. Go to page 59 and look at the picture of the menu at the top of the page - you'll see the words, "SACD Priority." On page 60, is the selection to tell the player which layer of the disc to play by default. Under that is the selection for "SACD Output" which you'd likely want to set to "DSD" if you're using the analog outputs, which I'd recommend. The other selections for "SACD output" are if you want or need to convert DSD to PCM for an external DAC that doesn't support DSD, or if for some reason you wanted to convert DSD to PCM before sending it to the internal DAC. The extra step of conversion from DSD to PCM isn't necessary, and in my opinion, degrades the sound when using the analog outputs. I'm of the opinion that the less conversions you make of the data, the better. When I had my first Oppo, I was overwhelmed by all the options, but after reading them a few times it starts to make sense. |
There MUST be a button, either on the remote or on the front of the player that allows you to do that on the fly. I can not imagine that you would have to go in the menu to find it, and then pick only ONE layer. How cumbersome. Sorry, it makes no sense, at least from a purely logical perspective. I'll go out on a limb and say I'm not simplifying it. |
Thanks for the clarification. So what I am hearing you say is that UDP-205 can in fact be set up to play the stereo hi-rez layer of typical SACD which has three layers, CD, stereo SACD and MC. What I am still not clear but will try to find out, where in the owners manual one finds direction of how to setup the player so that it would play the stereo SACD layer. Don’t laugh, I am learning and thanks again. |
Is there a way to program the player to read the hi-rez stereo layer of SACD rather than down mix the MC? You are reading the manual out of context. In General... SACD discs can have both a stereo layer and a multichannel layer on the same disc and you choose which to play. Most stereo players default to playing the stereo layer or can be set up to do so. But, if the multichannel layer of the disc is selected, a stereo (2 channel) SACD player will down mix the multichannel program to stereo, if the player is capable of reading and playing the multichannel layer. |
....I am confused, I would not touch UDP-205 if it only down mixes the multi channel layer of SACD for stereo playback.Yes, I think you may be confused. I don't see (in the manual) any restriction about SACD, other than "Due to copyright restrictions and bandwidth limitations, SACD audio cannot be sent through the coaxial/optical audio output..." So if you use the analog or HDMI output I believe you can play the multi channel layer of SACD. Call Oppo tech support and ask. |
As far is I know, it functions like any other multi format/channel player--like my marantz UD7007. It allows me to adjust, on the fly, to either the multi channel or stereo layer. It will also keep the last choice you made as your default choice. If the last layer you listened to was stereo, than it will default to that the next time you play any disc. There is also a downmix option in the menu, but I don't enable that function. I would imagine the Oppo functions in much the same way. It certainly depends on whether our not the disc has more than one layer-stereo, multi, or cd. |
I am considering purchase of UDP-205, do not have it yet, this will be strictly for SACD playback in two channel stereo mode using players RCA analog outputs, it will not for conventional CD's as I have a good CD player. I have one question for those who are familiar with this player, I spent a good deal of time reading the on line owners manual where it states that for stereo the player downmixes multi channel layer, not a good idea. Is there a way to program the player to read the hi-rez stereo layer of SACD rather than down mix the MC? Dumb question, but I am confused, I would not touch UDP-205 if it only down mixes the multi channel layer of SACD for stereo playback. |
@jafant , You have been chasing the Marantz for quite a few months and that too on various forums. I have listened to the Marantz SA-10 at a dealer and it sounded pretty good. I heard no rolled off treble, like some people describe Marantz. But it was a system that I was not familiar with. Eventually I have settled on the Oppo 205. From AudioAsylum, you know how "Dibeliever" hates this player for being very bright harsh. His ears must be super sensitive, because in my system, the Oppo is anything but bright. In fact I would have taken a bit more bright - just the way it was in the initial days. This is a smooth player. What you should do is get the Oppo and take it to a Marantz dealer and compare side-by-side. If you are in Chicgo area, then you could visit Music Direct and they can help you. |
Hey there jafant, I must confess, and I hang my head in shame! I haven't gotten anything yet! Although all the responses were excellent and informative, I think I became partially paralyzed with indecision. Plus, I've always been a really slow guy when it comes to discretionary purchases like this. So, I'm still looking, but I completely intend to buy something. One thing, I think I've ruled out the oppo, just because I can't imagine it being as good as a dedicated player, like the Marantz.-even though my good buddy thinks I'm crazy and completely disagrees! |
HI, I read through this thread this morning and decided to chime in. My system is Prima Luna Dialogue Preamp, Coda amp, and Thiel CS5 speakers. The Thiels are demanding and need a lot of articulated detail to avoid hiss and sibilance. I used an Audio Space CD8 player that provided a lot of presence and liveliness but with a bit of hash on the very high end. I read about the Oppo and bought the 105 when it first came out. It was an improvement because it reduced the sibilance. Then I got the full upgrade from Ric Schultz at EVA and that was another improvement - more refinement and detail. The sound stage is wider than the speakers and the depth is there if it is on the recording. It still can be difficult to pick exact voices or instruments on some complicated mixes. Ultimately, I would describe the Ric Schultz modified Oppo sound as a bit polite in my system. I have listened to a Marantz 8004 in my system and thought it had more base than the Oppo but not quite the same smoothness. Dsper |
" Oppo does not play SACD-Rs ( DVD or USB stick with ,iSO on it or via DLNA) due to copyright restrictiions, but does play DSFs "cut" from SACD-R, " Thank you for your correction, mikhaelkuz. My mistake. I was referencing my 105's owners manual and did not realize this functionality had been retracted. I've never had the need or desire to use or verify these specific capabilities. I'm thinking Oppo likely was compelled to limit the 105's abilities via subsequent firmware updates due to possible legal exposure. Regardless, I still consider the Oppo 105 and 205 high quality and versatile audio devices that also offer exceptional video quality at a reasonable price. I agree with the suggestion that jonasandezekiel is best served by buying a 205 and deciding for himself. Thanks, Tim |
I consider the Oppo 105's CD playback to be very good thanks to its overbuilt power supply with large toroidal transformer, separate and isolated CD playback circuitry and excellent Sabre 9018 and 9028 dac chips usually found in much more expensive players. I believe its CD playback performance would fair very well in comparisons to a wide variety of CD only players from a wide variety of price points. However, I think it's important to point out a few facts that readers of this thread should keep in mind, especially when comparisons are made to components that are much less versatile such as the Rega Apollo CD player which can only playback redbook CDs. The Oppo 105 and the current 205 are 'virtual Swiss army knives'. They are both primarily high quality Blu-ray players with impressive video processors, HDMI connectivity and surround sound processors with up to 7.1 channel decoding to analog audio outputs. They both are able to play back virtually any silver disc: CDS, SACDs, DVDs, DVD-As and even CD-Rs. They both can be used to stream high resolution audio files (up to and including DSD) either via hard-wire or wireless connections through their very good internal Sabre dacs. External hard drive storage units can be connected to store ripped CDs and downloaded hi-res music files. Just something to keep in mind when comparisons between these Oppos and less versatile players are made. Others may dismiss this extreme versatility with comments such as "Jack of all trades, but master of none". After using the Oppo 105 for about 2 years, however, the original unshortened quote seems more appropriate to me: “A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.” Tim |
Additionally, in my comparison with Sony’s ability to play the 4K movies vs oppo, the oppo udp-205 had slightly better movie image but could not justify the price tag vs the cheaper sony 4k (UBP‑X800 player $149 BF deal down from $299). Oppo UDP-205 could definitely justify the price difference. Fact be told that video - just like audio - is an expensive hobby where subtle, marginal and incremental gains are indeed expensive. I agree with your audio appraisal that it’s versatile but master of none (albeit it is no slouch in the audio department) but as far as video is concerned really nothing even remotely close to its price tag can beat it. Combine its video performance with very good (and in some circles extremely good) audio and the overall effectiveness is such that from a value perspective its impossible to beat (currently and in today’s market). If you’re happy/content with the $149 player that’s fine too. |
A little late here but compared a black friday oppo udp-205 deal vs. my rega apollo cd player and the rega apollo (sub $1000 cd player) is a far superior cd player. I’m sure oppo does well in many ways but it was no comparison to dedicated rega cd player. I cannot speak for the Marantz SA-14S1 cd player but in my opinion there’s a lot of hype behind oppo's sound quality. I would agree though oppo is very versatile but master of none. Additionally, in my comparison with Sony’s ability to play the 4K movies vs oppo, the oppo udp-205 had slightly better movie image but could not justify the price tag vs the cheaper sony 4k (UBP‑X800 player $149 BF deal down from $299). 2 channel set-up: Rega apollo cd player Mcintosh mc275 tube amp Mcintosh c2300 pre-amp Wilson Audio Sophia3 |
Hi jonasandezekiel, I haven’t heard any of the better Marantz players so I cannot give you any useful advice on how it compares to the Oppo 105 I have owned for the past 2 years. I won’t claim the Oppo is the best available since I’ve not auditioned many of the higher-end and expensive units either. But I can tell you that the 105 is a very impressive and versatile player that I consider my personal reference player and, by all reports, the new 205 is at least as good audio wise and better video wise since it’s now 4K. I never thought I was buying ’the best’ but thought I was getting a very good performer that would do a lot of things very well. I reasoned that more expensive players would likely perform better in certain aspects but these improvements would probably would be marginal in nature and the large increase in price would need to be balanced against any perceived marginal increases in performance. I agree with your view that someone’s personal reference component needs to be determined within the constraints of their budget. I thought I was buying a very good Bluray player with an excellent audio section at a bargain price of $1,199. I’m very pleased to tell you that’s exactly what I got. The Oppo’s most impressive qualities are its versatility and audio performance. I use the 105 as a preamp, 5.1 surround sound processor, stand alone dac for music streaming as well as a high quality video processor for Blurays and cable hdtv. The audio quality is so good in fact, that I sold my Parasound AV-2500 surround processor I used for 5.1 surround and my beloved VTL 2.5 preamp (with NOS Mullard tubes and ht bypass) that I used for 2-ch music playback. I never thought I’d remove the VTL from my system but, after extensive comparison of the sound with and without it in my system, I had to admit my music sounded just as sweet and dimensional using the 105 as a music preamp. This was especially hard to discover since I had just recently swapped in a new set of expensive NOS Mullard tubes in the VTL. The 105’s audio performance via its XLR and SE outputs is really that good; I had to be honest and trust my ears. FYI- Oppo’s customer support is also very good and they helped me setup my computer audio system with my laptop running JRiver, a NAS and the Oppo as dac all communicating via my home wi-fi. The multiple Sabre 9018 dac chips in the Oppo are excellent, too, though I believe the 205 has the latest Sabre 9028 chips. Hope this helped and best wishes, Tim |
@tomcarr - when you get it (I am sure I put this explanation farther up the thread...but I'll summarize again): back the output volume off in the settings to something else than 100%. I really thought it was harsh at 100. I have mine set at 90%. Break-In/Warm-up/whatever you want to call it 'was real' in this box. Definitely filled out the sound after a few hours. I supposed some fancy pink noise disc would probably be the best for that purpose. I used Beethoven's 9th symphony, on repeat, for a couple days (mostly because I wasn't there to listen to it). I wish I could say the 5 or so digital filters (really, DAC processing algorithms) were drastically different...they seem extremely slight to me. I'm still 'playing' with the different ones. The 205 has been out long enough now (I got it in May?) that I bet there are plenty of opinions on the 'net on which one is best. I'll probably just pick one that "people like" and live with it for a while. Just a heads up that when the UDP-205 was first released, each volume step off 100 equated to 1 db. A relatively recent firmware update modified that to .5 db per volume step. As to the DAC filter setting, general consensus is that the default - mini phase fast - is "best". Of course this is merely a preference so YMMV. |