Revel Ultima Salon 2's vs B&W 802d's

Nab2,

I would like to hear your comparison/opinion of these two speakers. Did you decide which pair you are keeping?

I think Audoifeil has a point, I liked the 802diamond but I could not bring myself to buy them. I have a love/hate relationship with them. On one hand I think they are very engaging (bass punch and the vocals grab you) but on the other they always sound unnatural to me. The mids are peaky and the highs while VERY good stand out to me.

As a side note I think Revels (in general) throw vocals much like my Thiels. They spread the vocals very wide across the whole front stage. Where the 802diamonds are much more focused. The focus of the vocals maybe what is drawing you into the B&Ws (or it could be the 4k peak). For a point of reference the Sopha 3 runs a center line between the 802diamond and Revels having good spread and focus at the same time.

I did compare the Sophia 3 and 802diamond in the same room and system... I am sure someones head will explode when I say this but I liked the B&Ws better. They were more detailed in the mids, and highs. The bass of B&Ws also had a more defined initial whack of the bass drum. But I could not get over the oddness of the sound stage of the 802diamonds. The mids were nice but as Audiofeil points out they just sounded unnatural and produced.

This is an odd hobby though, and everyone likes what they like. Just because one speaker is better it does NOT mean you will like it better. With that said there is no doubt that the Revels are the better (better=accurate) speaker and IMO is one of the best buys in audio right now.

Nab2,

How much toe in are you using with the Revels? You may get more focus in the vocal range if you toe them in pretty far, of course the soundstage will get smaller.

Mr m wrote "I'm a bit confused about the oddness of the soundstage you mentioned"

It seemed odd to me and I am not sure why, I will try and describe what I heard but it was just one demo of the 802Diamond. I demoed the older 802D about 5 times a few years ago before I passed on them. I have also owed the 803s and still have a pair of 703s in the second bedroom system.

Anyway the soundstage (just my opinion) sounded a little off. It was like the mids, highs, and bass were on different planes. The mids projected forward while the highs were back a little farther and the bass bloomed through out the room as bass does. The sound stage seemed very small in stage when directly compared to the Sophia 3. Now the 802diamond did throw a very DEEP soundstage but it's width seem narrow. The stability was like a soap bubble to me. When I really focused it was beautiful but if I got distracted I lost it. On the other hand the Sophia's sound stage was not near as fragile.

I noticed it most on female vocals and much less on male vocals. Female vocals seemed to stage more narrow than male vocals. It made me think that the 6" driver was crossed over a little to high and it was starting to beam (just a guess, i really have no idea). Room/side reflection will play a big part here.

Nab2,

I never did answer your question about CDs, figured you would not like my stuff. Music is very personal and it is why I do not recommend music for demos very often. Most often what ever you are listing to most frequently at the time makes for the best demos.

With that being said I alway demo the same CDs for speakers demos and add what even I am listening to at the time. Below is a list of CDs I take, be it some are very unconventional but I have chose them for a reason. I am not really into audiophile music (jazz, classical) and the CDs I take may not be the best but they work for me.

Eric Clapton's Unplugged
- "Layla" This is an all acoustic track and will let you tell tone and timbre. The crowd clapping also gives a since of sound stage. Imaging is a little right of center on this recording though.

Michael Jackson's Bad Remastered.
- any song really, but "just good friends" comes to mind. This CD has good bass drums and bass guitar. On good speakers you can hear every pluck and strum of the bass guitar. "Bad" also has good pace and drum line

Metallica's Black album.
- This CD was a staple of my youth and if the speakers can't get rock right they have to go....

Tori Amos' Under the Pink.
- It is mostly Piano and Vocals. It is recorded pretty well. I am just listening to the upper mids hear and the scale of the piano. The CD has a bit of sibilance though and if the mids are peaky it will stand out on this CD.

Apocalytica' Inquisition Symphony.
- This is my midrange stress test, if there is a hiccup in the bass-mid-tweeter handoff you will hear it. This is a cello quartet but they cover heavy metal tracks. This CD has gotten a few raised eye brows during demos. It is very well recorded... but not for everyone. Give it a demo on itunes or amazon before you buy the CD.

Evanescence " The open door" not the best recording (its ok still) but I just like it....

Thats about it, I will add in what ever I am into at the time. I have taken everything from Devo's "Some thing for everyone" (electronic base lines) to Dream Theater to demos...

I value scale and dynamics above all things and like a high energy speaker that has a softer side too. I also need the small details to get into the music. I am VERY picky on spoken word (can't stand boxy-ness during a movie). But I am not a stickler for highs and find most "highend" speakers' highs are good enough for me.

For what it is worth B&W always show well with rock music. Turn them up and they just have a sense of power. Maybe it is the forward mids with the strong bass but it works.

Nab2,

I own some Keb 'Mo but all the other you listed are new to me. I did demo all the music you listed in itunes.

I think with your taste in music both of the speakers you have chosen will sound very nice. I think the balance of the revels will allow you to pick apart the music better and find the details in the music you like (with better timbre too). I have always thought B&Ws are a bit of a rocker brand (strong bass, strong highs, forward mids) where the revels seem to run a center line and seem to get out of their own way better.

Enjoy the music

The 802 impedance is all over the place and needs an amp that can handle the swings even though they are 90db efficient. Lots of speakers are like this though. Basically they need lots of current and with lots of current comes lots of power. It goes back to Ohm's Law (I=V/R) as the resistance drops the current goes up (voltage is constant in the home). Of course this is a very simple explanation and the capacitors in the crossovers will complicate things. There are lots of designers on audiogon that could explain it better... electrical was never my strong suit in school.

"I estimated the B&W 802D's voltage sensitivity as 89dB(B)/2.83V/m, within experimental error of the specified 90dB figure and usefully higher than the average of the more than 500 speakers I have measured in the past 16 years. The B&W's impedance plot (fig.1) reveals the speaker to be moderately difficult to drive, with a magnitude that drops to 3 ohms throughout the upper bass and an awkward combination of 4 ohms and –50° electrical phase angle at 60Hz. In addition, the very high peak between 2 and 3kHz, resulting from the tweeter/midrange crossover, will give a somewhat forward tonal balance with amplifiers having a significant source impedance; say, tube models."

look at the first graph.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/bw-802d-loudspeaker-measurements