You should try the overlord 12ax7-HD. these babies sound killer..
Others I recommend
ecc803s Telefunken More expensive. |
Hi all,
Anyone try new KT120s ? Do you think TAD-60 can handle KT120? I hear good things about these tubes :)
Thanks |
I have a writeup and complete biasing from Paul on my blog:
http://brianmedia.net/2013/04/tube-audio-design-tad-60-amp/
. |
Karimo40, send me an email f16125 at aol.com and I will fax/mail you the bias instructions |
I understand Paul has passed away and his web site is defunct. Do any TAD-60 owners have copies of the information that was on there? In particular the biasing values for various tubes, and ways to tinker with them such as lowering bias to effectively get SET amplification, and other instructions/advice. Would also love to know what else was on there. |
I've always wondered how the KT88's would sound, as I've seen them in MC275's, so I assume they must be kinda "special." My SED 6550C's kick ass, but don't have the quality mids and highs of an EL34 IMO, only by a slim margin, though.
What are your impressions? And why the trouble biasing? I thought they would be interchangeable with the others; KT77, 6CA7, 6550, EL34, etc. I realize no 6l6 series because Paul told me they couldn't handle current.
I've had my TAD60 since 3-2007 it currently runs a second system in UL Mode with some very nice early KLH Six's. I use it more than my "primary" SET system. I am still completely in love this amp. Too bad more can't enjoy these wonderful gems, that's for sure. |
after much reading and advice from many I deciced on Ruby KT88's from Doug's Tubes. When tubes arrived I could not bias them correctly (they were running way to hot, even with the trim pots at the minium) With help and mch patience from Paul, I added a resistor to the bias circuit and now the bias properly with ease.
The new tubes sound very different from the JJ KT77's. The extension in to the high end is a welcome surprise. |
I have been using my TAD-60 since 5/2006. Last year I changed speakers and the T-60 has been religated to biamp duty firing the upper half(Mids and Ribbon tweeter) of my rebuilt Magnepan IIIa's. The amp has no problem driving this low ohm load to high levels.
I lost an output tube this moring(they were JJ KT77). They were four years old, so I have nothing to complain about.
I have the original power tubes that Paul supplied but they are in an Dyna ST70 being used in another systemand I can put them back it the T-60 temporarily. So I am in the market for new Power tubes. Just curious if any one wants to point me in a good direction. |
I've used them and they sounded great, but I really like using the JJ77 |
anyone using EH 6CA7 with their TAD-60? if so how are the results? |
I would say this amp runs mildly warm. I run this amp all summer. If this amp is a good match for your speakers, I would give it an easy recommend.
|
How warm does this amp run? |
I've owned my 60 for approaching 2 years and feel compelled to mention a little here of my experiences.
I bought this amp from a fellow A'Gon-er (Thanks V.P.!), it was my first tube related purchase in about 30 years. It arrived with 6CA7EH's and a quad of JJ KT77's. The AX7's were RCA cleartops and the AU7 was an RCA grey plate. I used the 6CA7's and set it up in SET mode. I really liked what I heard.
Since then, I have tried a few different AU7's including some Sylvania's, GE's and Mullard (Eico) ECC82's in place of the Cleartops, I always went back to the Cleartops. The sound has more clarity and the mids and highs shimmer in comparison to the "darker" flavor of the other tubes.
Over the past 18 months, in SET mode, I've tried the following tubes:
JJ KT77's, but couldn't get them to hold biasing, so I got rid of them, I understand that there were quality issues with the older ones and that these issues have been corrected with the newer ones. I haven't tried any newer versions (yet).
Then, I tried some Flying "C" 6550 from SED. The most obvious change that I heard was more bass, it was really nice, IMO. The highs weren't as shimmery as the 6CA7's. The mids were not quite as nice, either, but still sounded excellent.
The next roll were JJ E34L's at the suggestion of a guy at AudioKarma. Inexpensive to say the least, they are currently my favorites. The highs and mids are accurate and smooth, and there is no lack of bass, either.
I recently started to notice a strange sound in the left channel on power up, and it turned out to be my RCA Grey Plate AX7, :cry:. Fortunately, I had an Amperex and Sylvania laying around, and between the two, I preferred the Sylvania.
Fortunately, I got some cash for Christmas, so, of course, I had to spend it on tubes. I just ordered a Mullard reissue, Tung Sol reissue, JJECC803S and Sovtek LPS from Doug's Tubes. The fun continues...:)
At any rate, I really like this amp, and I enjoy the seamingly endless variety of tube one can feed it.
Adcom GCD-700
Adcom GFP-710
Adcom GFT-1A
Dual 1218
Teac A6010
Altec Lansing 604-8G's in 620B cabinets and Jeff Markwart crossovers |
Update: It's been just about 3 years since posting my TAD-60 review, and my TAD 150/60 combo still shines as brilliantly as ever. After the first few months of ownership I'd exchanged the stock EL-34 tubes with EH 6CA7's, and then later with Tung Sol KT-66's - A very nice transformation in each case with regards to bass depth & control plus added midrange holography & presence. And zero reliability issues to boot with either unit. Keepers for sure! -gg |
Hi Bbchem....Try the amp biased into class A....Thats my favorite mode |
Just got my TAD60 from a fellow Audiogoner, I am using it with my new Mark and Daniel Rubys in UltraLinear mode. These are only 82DBL sens. and supposedly need at least 80 watts. Oh Contrare!! With the 60 Tube watts that this amazing amp puts out the sound and level in my 15X 20 room borders on Stupendous!! These Speakers were blowing me away before and now they are killing me!! This is a match made in heaven. I will never go back to my solid state amps after this combo. |
Hi...Has anyone tried the kt66 tube in this amp? |
how does the 2007 tad60 sound with 6550 tubes? |
Hi guys...I just purchased a pair of vintage Spica TC50's from a fellow audiogoner and have been listening to them through my tad 150/60 combo and am truly amazed at the imaging these 20 yr old speakers project. Does anyone else have any experence with this combo?...thanks |
I have had my 60 since early may and I am most pleased. Others that have heard my system aggree that this is a very good amp. The 60 is just driving the top half of my Vandy 2ce Sigs. I am using JJ KT77's from douglas tubes with no problems, biased Class A. The mids and highs are sweet and fast. Other mods are: TubeCoolers that are grounded, I replaced the plastic feet with 3 2X3 inch brass footers and the whole thing is sitting on 4 inches of butcher block slab painted black that is spiked to carpet over concrete. I added some wood side rails and painted silver tran cap black. |
Hi Larry:
Thanks. I guess they must be weeding out the bad ones.
Michael |
Hi MIchael....I think I got them from TubeDepot...So far they have been rock steady..and I really like the sound..larry |
Hi Larryrx7:
Where did you purchase your KT77s? I have been reluctant to buy them because of the reliability issues raised on AudioAsylum. Even Paul said he had a high failure rate with these. Some people seem to get tubes that are fine, but poor Jim McShane seems to get bad batches.
Thanks for your help.
Michael
P.S. I think the TAD 60 is a great amp and Paul a really nice person to deal with. |
Hi Stan...Your comment about the tad 60 rings true because I have tried several el34 based amps, ie shanling, prima luna etc and this one just has something the others did not. Such is the mystery of this hobby. |
And may I just add , that on both amps I am running 6ca7s, bass amp (hot bias) to squeez out as much power as possible to woofers and class A for mid tweet amp,which is very smooth. I am very critical of two channel audio and must say that the Tad60s are very good amps.
Stan |
Thanks Larry, I also prefer the EL34s to the 6ca7s for the mids. The new Tungsol x7 works for me. Stan |
Hi Stan.....I have tried the 6ca7, kt 90, el34....And think the kt77 just have a nice balance tight bass and ratain the lush midrange of the EL 34 valve....I also rolled in a jan 5751 in ax7 position and this seemed to further the improvement...I just don't have a real desire to roll anymore tubes....That's kind of unusual for our hobby...I also run a pair of spendor s5e speakers and get around this combo...Just sounds right to me |
Depends what tubes you use. I use the EH 6CA7 and the attack is very fast. This amp sounds better with every improvement that I have made. I recently bought some very thick speaker cable which opened up the amp even more. It has made the biggest difference with more air, the musical components are spread out across the room and front to back... Still has not seemed to reach its potential... |
For those of you interested in PRaT (pace, rhythm and timing), how does this amp do in that regard?
Mike |
PS: the 6L6GC tube is only usable on the 2007 model. |
I've been listening to my 60 for about two months now - almost 4 hours daily. I've determined that in my setup using the Chinese 6L6GC's from Paul produce a better mid and upper midrange than the 6CA7's. Can't tell about the lower end since I use a sub and don't worry about it. If you all haven't tried that quad of tubes (set up for class A) try it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. |
Larry, would you describe the difference between the 77s from 6ca7s . I'm running two Tad-60s to VMPS RM40s.
Thanks. Stan |
HI Matman...I have beening running a quad of jj kt77 in triode mode for about a month and I think these are the best yet with good tight base and mids like the el34. I also replace the ax7 with jan 5751 and with these changes, I think the amp sounds better than ever...How has your experience with the kt77 gone?....Same question for anyone elso also |
Hey Matman, can you report on the changes you heard with
rolling your 12ax's and the 12au's? I would be interested
in your views. |
I agree the tad-60 is a great amp, I have a 2006 model (no Led's) I really like my amp, It is now running with SED EL34's a sylvania 5751 for 12ax7 position. and RCA black plate 12au7's. Sounds wonderful biased class a. Just received a set of JJ Kt-77's I will be trying. Paul does a great job. I will also need to try his 6CA7's. |
No tube rolling yet. But I am the proud owner of a 2007 TAD-60. The amp is a joy. The biasing is dead simple with the new L.E.D. readouts. I am happily surprised at the quality of the build, even better than the pictures let on.
The amp has the fatboys already installed, the ones that
the other owners have mentioned are a good roll.
But the real treat is the music that this amp can make. It
is quite good. I am the envy of my solid state buddies that try so hard to get that special sound, which this amp does easily.
I also must mention that the TAD is a great value. I haved shopped around and this amp could easily go for double the
price.
So,kudos to Paul and his craftmanship on the TAD-60. |
Swapping out the x7 makes the most dramatic change. I like the Sylvania 3mica blackplates which is 5751 with a bit less gain, but oh so nice; especially mids, but bass and highs are great too. The u7s make less of a sonic head turning difference, but a difference none the less. Better NOS tubes will clean things up and provide greater transparency. I like the RCA cleartops. If you can find them under the Conn label (made for Baldwin organs and well made) get them cause they're typically cheaper. I also recently tried a JJ/Tesla E80CC which has a slightly bigger load than u7s (Paul ok'd them) so overall they are a bit more forward, and a nice cheap alternative if you can't find the cleartops. Btw, i also tried Telefunkens & Mullards (not cheap), but really preferred the cleartops - much easier to come by which is nice when tube rolling. I'm loving the 6CA7 and do not plan on switching. I particulary like them in UL mode. Didn't think I would cause my speakers a bit forward, but right now I'm listening to Wilco's Being There LP (180gram) and its really sweet. Enjoy. |
Thanks Larry. I too have done some tube rolling of the 12AX7 and that seems to make a significant difference. I kind of thought the P/S tube probably didn't make much of a difference. I recently bought a few different pairs of 12AU7s I will try, just to hear what happens.
Michael |
Michael..I have replaced the 12ax7 with a nos sylvania and it seems to deepen the soundstage quite a bit...I have replaced the 12au7 with nos rcas and I can't that made a great difference |
Lou:
I have appox. 12 hrs. on my 6CA7s. Everything said here is right on the money. I also noticed they have more power in the bass. I can actually feel more air being moved by my speaker as compaired to the EL34s. They are more dynamic than EL34s. The 6CA7s sound so good now, I cannot wait until they are fully burnt in.
Lou what input and P/S tubes are you using in the TAD60? Have you found changing the P/S tube makes much of a difference?
Thanks.
Michael |
Lou..I agree with you about the 6ca7's. I found the same thing you did..that the el 34's just didn't have tightness that the 6ca7 do in the bass especially in the set mode. I don't know if any further rolling would improve on these. What do you think? |
The 6CA7s from Paul are da BOMB! Get them. I have them setup in Class A mode and totally agree with previous comments. Tight, deep bass, extended highs (not harsh), and huge soundstage. Big improvement. You won't miss the KT88 or the lushy mids of the EL34s. They do need sometime to break in but you'll notice it (kinda jumps out at you) after @ 20hrs, but really start to settle in after 50. And get them from Paul because he really does matching, and having an extra tube always helps.
Lou |
I have a pair of spendor s5e's with 150/60 combo and it really sings....very synergistic match |
what speakers are you using with the 150 and 60 combo? i have totem arros with the 150 and a ss amp with 200wpc. considering moving to tube amp, totem recommends antique s l and prima luna. |
OK, I have approx. 12 hrs. on them now and I tend to agree on your observations regarding cleaner vocals, better, extended highs, soundstage depth but also tighter bass. Not only do the vocals sound cleaner, but the entire midrange for that matter. I've been listening to familiar and well recorded LPs and have noticed subtle neuances in many of them that I hadn't observed before. What a joy it is to have inexpensive, new production tubes that behave so admirably. BTW, anyone considering the EH6CA7s should get them through Paul @ Bizzy Bee as he truly load matches each quintet (one as a spare) for hassle-free installation/biasing (Thank you, Paul!). When you set Paul's tubes, they stay put!
Dave |
Should be getting my EH 6CA7s today on Paul's recommendation. Can't wait to try them. How long have you been running yours?
Dave |
The Tele smooth plate was the better of the two for me (more extension and vibrant) but in general I wasn't impressed with either. I think unless you spend big bucks to go for the ECC variants of Teles, you're money is best spent elsewhere. I thought the Mullards (longplate), Raytheon 5751, RCA 5751, & Sylvania 5751 (all 3mica bp) were superior and offered a huge improvement when compared to the Teles. I also liked the Groovetube which is supposedly based on the Mullard shortplate. I have ECC801s (the t7) in the TAD150 and they are absolutely stellar so I'm not a Tele hater. And if the ECC803s (the x7) weren't super expensive I'd have demoed them, too. The x7 I finally settled on for TAD60 (no joke my shopping is done) is the Sylvania. This tube is everything folks say it is. A close second is the Raytheon. The Sylvania edges it out with its awesome mid-range. |
The TAD-150/TAD-60 combo has been viewed quite enthusiastically in this thread. I have read elsewhere of a Cayin TA-30 integrated getting paired with the TAD-150 and receiving glowing reviews so the TAD-150 had fans in a number of camps.
I know there are other pre-amps out there I’ve seen suggestions of using:
-- Monarchy Audio M24 tube DAC/linestage
-- Quicksilver Remote linestage
-- Eastern Electric Minimax
-- Octal-based Mapletree Linestage 2A SE
Now that the TAD-150 plant has closed, has anyone heard from Paul G. whether he is going to find a substitute? Just curious now that the TAD-150 is no longer available, in addition to the above suggestions, what are people are thinking of matching to the TAD-60. |
