Bache, yes I'm looking for the brand names and models of speakers in the aforementioned price range. Thanks.
Mtrot, I'll track down the models you suggest and find the Virginia Legacy dealers you mentioned. Thanks
Kcpellethead, appreciate the advice. I'd only considered bringing along my own CD's and records.
Nitewulf, I'll look into your suggestions as well. Thank you.
Anybody else out there, your suggestions are welcome as well. I'm only going to be able to do this once so I'd like to be thorough and not overlook any good possibilities.
Mike |
Scorpio, I was looking for a Vanderstein dealer in Virginia last night as a matter of fact with no luck, maybe because it was getting late and I was getting tired. . I'll try again today to find one. Thanks for reminding me. |
Mtrot, thanks for the tip on Capital Audiofest. I'll check into what manufacturers will be represented there. Maybe I can listen a variety of the above recommended speakers there, if I can't find them elsewhere..
Dwelle,r I'll check out the B&&W's you suggest. I would like to if possible find a speaker with enough bass to not need a subwoofer. I will be checking out the Revels, Paradigms and Magico.
Yogiboy, Do you know off hand which Harbeth falls into the $10,000 price range?
Soix, I'll only know the answer to your questions once I listen to a few speakers, which is why I am looking for a variety to audition. Right now I'm used to the sound of my late '70's vintage Dahlquist DQ10's, but have no idea what I might like at the $10,000 price range.
I think I'd like an uncolored, clean accurate sound. I know that sounds vague. About 1975, when I purchased my DQ10's the dealer invited me to a meeting of the New York Audio Society. I thought from the sounds of it, this would be a high class affair. As it turned out we met at some guys seedy two room apartment in Queens. This audiophile had expensive equipment piled on boxes next to his bed and laying around on the floor. Well, he turned on an Vanguard recording of Joan Baez live and she sounded like she was performing right there in the room with us. It was unexpectedly beautiful and unforgettable, and I'm not even a fan of Joan Baez. As close as $10,000 can get me to that experience is the sound I'd like.
Mike |
I will do that Mike. And its good to hear a familiar name like McIntosh. They've been around forever it seems.
Mike |
Thank you all for so many responses. I might have to make this a two-three day road trip you all have offered so many fine suggestions.
Twoleftears, Thanks for the recommend for Gifted Listener. That should be right on the way driving up from Roanoke. Evolution Audio and Command Performance are on my agenda and I’ll add Deja Vu for the Harbeths.
Mtrot, I’m sure your right about the electronics. They’re next on my upgrade list. My old well loved Phase Linear amp and preamp are going to be retired at long last.
Gdnrbob, I will look at the Vandersteens amd Will check out the Magnepans. I remember auditioning Magneplanars at the time I purchased my DQ10’s years ago. Interesting that technology is still around..
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Elizabeth, excellent tip on remembering to bring my source material back home from each dealer. In my excitement, leaving my source material sitting at the dealer is just the thing I’d likely do. I’ll shut down any blabbermouth salesman too. Thanks.
Soix, I’ll listen to the three brands you recommend if I run across them, although I’ll Philadelphia is a little too far north for this trip to go see them there. Honestly never heard of any of them before. I am so out of touch.
Jafant, I’ll look up the Listening Room and Soundscape in Baltimore and see what they carry.
Marsrecords, I would like to track down and listen too the Goldenear References as well as they are on the low end of my price range and have gotten some good revews.
Rbstehno, I will check out the Totems. If I remember correctly one of the dealers, I called in DC mentioned he carried them, at the same time as he badmouthed the Goldenears which he didn’t carry. I didn’t care for that approach
Dodgealum, Tacoma Park, Maryland shouldn’t be too far out of the way to check out the Muse speakers you mention if he has them at Linear Tube Audio. I’ll keep them in mind when I get to look at the preamp/amps in the futre too.
Glupson, I’ll try to listen to some Revel and the models you suggested.What is the "Tidal" you said dealers like to demo with?
Rwscott1, I’ll have to add Martin Logans to my ever expanding list to audition.
Dave1980, I will definitely be listening to the Personas.
Stringreen, I agree with you on the Vandersteens. I have read several people recommending them.
Dep14, you’re right, this list is getting long. I would like to hear speakers (along with the electronics) that provide a more detailed, less muddy sound than my current setup at the least. I’ll know better after some listens. And I’d like to avoid having to use a sub-woofer. Also my loud listening days are relegated to my youth. On the other hand my late wife often told me to "turn that volume down!".
Firstnot, I’d love to see Londo again, but probably not on this road trip. The Spendor speakers D9’s are hard to find for demo’s. I emailed the American Spendor distributors who suggested I see them in Florida on a trip I mentioned I’ll be taking there soon to visit family.
MikeTuason, I will check out the Focals you suggest. Thanks. I hadn't heard of that particular Focal model.
Thanks again all for taking the time to offer your advice.
Mike |
Tatyana69, That’s a good suggestion about bringing my equipment along for demo. However, I will be upgrading my vintage Phase Linear 400 amp and Phase Linear 400 preamp so I really don’t have the equipment to aid in a demo. I thought I’d get the speakers first and then find a well matched integrated amp (or separates) for them. Same deal for the cables. I’v only zip cord and cheapo RCA stuff now, which was all most of us used in the 70’s. I’ve got to learn about them too along the way.
Sixsigmaguy, That might be a good idea to wait until until Nov 2 and take in the Capitol Audiofest. I’ll check out their site today and see who might be there. Maybe a two day trip to see some dealers too.
Assetmgrsc, I will endeavor to stay calm, as you suggest, in spite of the excitement. That’s good advice.
Larryi, Deja Vu sounds like it would be interesting to check out.
Shadorne, thank you for the showroom demo listening advice. I’ve already printed it out and will carry it with me on my trip. I’ll track down the Sheffied Labs drum track and bring it along. Are there any other materials like that you or anyone might suggest take along for listening to at demos? You’re right about my DQ10’s being a unsatisfactory reference point. A visit to an audio store here in Roanoke is what convinced me to upgrade them, when I heard their single demo room setup with speakers that sounded much better than my vintage DQ10’s and were not all that high end either. I forget their make.This will be a learning experience for sure which is what I’ve intended.
Glupson. thanks for your excellent advice. I will definitely as you advise. call ahead and make sure the dealers have a suitable turntable and/or cd player set up. I would like to enter the 21st century audio wise but prefer to avoid any music not on a vinyl record or CD. I love records honestly. They are like old friends. You have probably saved me a wasted trip.
Jdub071, thanks for the advice, but my smoking days were of short duration and many, many years ago. If I recall, Dark Side of the Moon sounded great even on mediocre equipment under those circumstances. I’ll look into the TAD ME-1’s.
Miketuason, I’ll listen to the Upscale Audio on the Focal. I bought my VPI Classic 2 and Ortofon 2M Black cartridge from Upscale only two weeks ago and the woman I dealt with there recommended I check out the Focal line among two or three others Thanks.
Twoleftears, I’m looking forward to checking out the Command listening rooms. Thanks again.
Thank you all again,
Mike
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Thanks Chrissain. I would have liked to have heard the Revel’s. I read very good reviews on them too. We both made good choices.
Mike |
yysantabarbara, good luck on your road trip. I’ve never heard of the Vivid Kaya. There are just so many new audio gear manufacturers out there. I am familiar with Upscale Audio though, since I ordered my VPI Classic 2 turntable and Ortofon 2M black cartridge from them just a few weeks ago. It’s still sitting on a table waiting to be put together. They recommended the Focal line of speakers as well. Have fun.
Bigman, I looked up Dr. Vinyl and its on the way to Baltimore, so I could stop there too. I’ll have to look up the Gamut M5 and the Larsen 8. Not familiar with them either. I’m going to have to make a spreadsheet of all these speakers and where to go to take a listen. Never imagined there be so many choices at the $10,000 price point.
One more question for you all. Can anyone suggest any recordings that you have found revealing to bring to a speaker demo in addition to the Sheffield Labs drum track suggested? I’ve well over a thousand jazz, rock, R&B, and blues records and CD’s, plus a smattering of classical and other stuff. With any luck maybe you’ll hit on something I have already. Thanks.
Mike |
Kalali, I do have that one, so can bring it along. Thanks.
Mike |
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Prof, good point and I will be doing just that.
Googoogjoob. trust i've already squeezed out a few more thousand than I should with the $10,000 mark.
Jeffersondavis, will do. The Aerial 7t's are high on my list for their small footprint alone, along with excellent reviews.
Thyname, thanks for the heads up on what speakers the stores you mention carry.. That info goes on my spreadsheet.
Slimpikins5, Ill search out a location to hear the Bryston Model T and do some research on them. I've got a 16 foot high vaulted ceiling in my listening room to deal with and have to have the speakers fairly close to the walls too as a limiting factor.
Glupson, appreciate the heads up on Evolution AV's service.
Charles, I'm very likely to go to the Capitalfest and will ask for you at the Legacy Room if I do. Thanks for the friendly invite.
Co93, good idea to bring my own amp/preamp but I will be retiring them once the speakers and my new turntable are paid off.
Ieales, I'll find those three recordings you suggest and appreciate your candor. I would prefer to listen to vinyl records,at demos, as that is what I have for the most part, although I will tote along some CD's. You seem to be a pretty forthright person. What are some $10,000 speakers would you personally recommend at that price point, and if you want to be even more candid, which of those recommended.above wouldn't make it through your listening test. $10.000 dollars is a significant sum of money for me out of my life savings so I'd appreciate your honest recommend on exact models. Please, be blunt and don't be shy with your specific recommendations. I'd like to hear what you think
I wish I could afford to spend $40,000 at one shot to get a well matched system I could demo at home and have dealers close enough to loan equipment for me to demo at home. There are trade-offs for not living near NYC anymore and not having that type of availbilty is one I have to work around. My first trip(s) will be to rule in the contenders for further listening.and rule out the others.
I've got my turntatble/cartridge already, as aforementioned, and am trying to match speakers to them as well as possible, having to forgo the electronics to a later date. I will be researching what preamp/amps are recommended to match up well with each speaker demoed during the final cut. I thought about contacting the manufacturers for their recommends in this regard. I read were Magico liked some particular Scandanavian integrated amp to go along with their A3's for example.
I'll try to get speakers matched with equivalent valued equipment. I'm curious to how you would allot your resources if spending $40,000 total.
Ggc, the Devores you recommend are now on the list.
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Shkong78, Ive added the Martin Logan Impression ESL 11A’s to the spreadsheet. Thanks.for the link too.
Jafant, glad to hear you had such good results from you search and afterwards. That’s encouraging. Any audio stores in Baltimore you particularly like or have had good experiences with.
Glupson, You’re so right about how the NYC retail scene has changed,since the advent of the internet especially, Brick and mortar of all sorts has been disappearing at an alarming rate, not just audio outlets. When my wife was still alive we tried to go to the Garment District to find some drapery material, only to find most of the fabric stores had disappeared. It was shocking. I miss all the old record stores/outlets too.
Ieales. Sorry you wouldn’t presume to make recommends or at least point out some speakers you found lacking without more info. My listening room is approximately 13 feet by 22 feet with a cathedral ceilng that goes up to maybe 15 feet from the floor on a 12/12 pitch, centered on the short walls Picture how a five year old might draw a house and you got the configuration. The two side and the back walls are lined with book shelves as the room doubles as a library. The room has three dormer windows on the back wall, one centered and the others equidistant and eight feet apart with 2 foot by 7 foot long "corridor" leading to them on that wall. Have oak floors, speakers will go on the front long wall,
I like to listen to 1950’s jazz, think Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, etc, Actually everything, other than Ornette Coleman type free form, from Ellington, then Charlie Parker on through to Weather Report. Dating myself, I love late sixties rock and roll groups, and R&B artists, everything from the earliest rock and roll and doo wop up through punk. Think Stones,Joplin, Hendrix, Aretha etc., through Bowie and the Clash. I like fifties rock and roll, and blues too. I have some classical and other material and world music, though not lots. I listen to music at moderate sound levels usually, picture maybe a bit more loudly than you might typically listen to TV. I like a clean sound where I can hear all the detail and the speaker disappear. Muddy and poor source material I find irritating.
You obviously are well versed in this area, way more than me, so I’m trying to squeeze some more direction out of you or at least some speakers you’d avoid or don’t meet your parameters. And by the way what are ’squids?
Twoch, I’ve always had way to many questions for that approach, and way too little expertise to be making sound decisions. I know just about enough to be dangerous especially after a forty year layoff in stereo equipment research and purchasing.
Lancelock, Thanks for the Janzen electrostatic recommend. I’ll keep an eye out. I listed my room dimensions just above in my response to ieales. Thank you for your interest and asking.
Thanks again all.
Mike
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Ieales, thank you so much for sharing your expertise, and the links and recommendations provided. They will help provide direction.
I have considered sending my DQ-10s to Regnar to be rebuilt and have spoken to them twice, including inquiring about the DQ-89W’s. I finally decided that constantly doing repairs and upgrades on forty plus year old equipment is fighting a losing battle. Parts availability and no experience doing electronics repair myself are limiting factors. If I have to take apart and fix my aesthetically pleasing old Bang and Olufsen Beogram 4002 turntable one more time, I think I’ll scream. It’s time to bite the bullet and start anew. Time marches on whether we like it or not.
I’ll research all your links and will heed your advice and warnings.
Mountainsong, thank you for your recommendation on the Gamut. I never heard of that one either.
Jetson, Good advice on taking notes. I’m planning on doing exactly that.
Headphonedreams, I’ve added the Boenicke’s to the list. There are apparently an endless supply of $10,000 loudspeakers out there I’ve never heard of. Thanks for the suggestion.
Mac1523 your suggestions on the Mac XR100’s and Martin Logans are now on the list too.
Appreciate everyone’s guidance. With all the hurricane induced rain today might be a good day to organize all your suggestions and recommendation on speakers and listening locations. I’ve learned a lot already from all your help.
Would somewhat please clue me in on what the audio term "squids" denotes. I tried googling it but only found overly technical, or aquatic explanations. Thanks,
Michael.
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Glupson, you could correct as to what "squids" means.
Hddg, thanks for the listening room advice and I'll add your speaker model suggestions to the list. I'm up to about thirty models to check out now. Good grief. I never heard of the XTZ Divine Alphas before. The name is certainly original
Dweller, Hoochie Mama? That might be another good speaker model name.
Mtret, if you come across some Divine Alphas let me know,
Tomic 601, hope you're correct about my listening space. And great advice to hang on to my DQ 10's to play around with learning how to do upgrades. I've been dreaming about building the stands for them, mirror imaging and, replacing the old caps and piezo tweeter for years. I'll put the DQ's out in my new 24' by 40' woodworking shop when its built. Great idea, And I've added the Vandersteen Treo CT to my "must hear" short list. Thanks.
Passet02, consider it done.
Ieales, thanks again for you input, and putting in a kind word on John Dahlquist the designer of my DQ 10's. I remember reading up on his "phased arrays" back in the 1970's not fully understanding what he was trying to accomplish then, but have enjoyed the results of his approach these many years.
Steve59, great idea to get an in home demo. I only wish it were possible out here in the middle of nowhere.
Mike
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Joe, The only reason I don't want used, is that speakers, like used cars, may have been abused or damaged, and potential defects may be hidden to the untrained eye or expensive to repair later on. I've had enough problems over the years with my own well cared for stereo equipment to not want the experience of dealing with someone else's equipment if I'm not sure of how they treated theirs.
Having to deal with repairs I don't know how to do is one of the reason's I'm replacing my own vintage equipment. Learning how to do basic repairs on my B&O turntable because nobody locally could do them, was a stess I don't wish to repeat. I've got enough time consuming repair or maintenance work to do around here on things I do know how to do. I would like to learn about electronics, but probably won't ever get around to it.
Glupson, Sorry for the typo. Above, when you replied about "squids" I meant to say "You could be correct....... For some reason you can't correct typos on this site if you don't catch them right away. I'm sure they have their reasons.
Inna4, be nice.
Ieales, thanks again for your input.
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Tomic601, I am in Virgina, just north of Roanoke, a few hours southwest of Washington DC. I am looking forward to building stands for my DQ10’s if nothing else. I couldn’t afford them along with the DQ10’s, back in my 20’s. I do have to figure out what kind of wood, likely not exotic, they used on their side panels in order to match it on the stands. I have a vague, but unlikely, memory it might have been pecan
I’ll look up Rudy Von Gelders studio as you suggest, I’ve a number of recordings he engineered. That’ll be interesting. Thanks for the suggestion.
Joe, kind of you to say. Thank you. And I probably will be needing some luck making a determination considering the number of recommendations provided here. Great site and members. I’m very pleased with the helpful content and number of responses received.
Mike |
Twoleftears, thanks for tailoring your recommended audio stores to my location near Roanoke and planned trip north. I couldn't have asked for more. Thank you. I don't think I've come across The JS Audio name before. I'll take a look at their website. I will definitely be visiting the others.
I have utilized both Uptown Audio locations you mentioned both in Roanoke and now Salem . He re-foamed my DQ-10 woofers and fixed my Phase Linear 4000 preamp another time. Did a good job on both. Do you live nearby?
Godnbob, I'm glad to you've had good luck with your used equipment. I honestly don't want to chance of having to need repairs, even though I would love to have $30,000 speakers for $12,000. I've currently ten older Delta woodworking machines I'm needing to restore, ten acres and a good sized house to maintain, and a shop to build. That's overwhelming enough for one guy. I want stereo equipment I know is new and good to go for the next twenty years or so.
Jafant9 I will look up Sounsdscape and the Listening Rooms websites and see what they carry. Thanks.
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Tomic60, I’ll look up HiFiBuys in Atlanta website in Atlanta and see what they have. That’s a drive and a half from here as you know though I did round trip it in one day once.
Steve, I’m curious about what you finally did to get the Kef R’s up to snuff. Did you have to buy all new equipment, cables, and the like? Sorry for your dismal experience.
It sounds like I’m really going to have to stay on top of the demoing process at these stores. By being insistent I might be able to wrangle an in-home demo when I’m ready to buy. I’ll check out the possibilities. One drawback to that is I’m going to be replacing my preamp and amp next. Maybe they’d bring an decent integrated amp with them.
Glupson, I certainly don’t need snotty. If I don’t care for someones attitude. I’ll let them know about it. I’m not really the shy retiring type. I think its probably a good idea to see if they would for a potential $10,000 sale, set up the kind of demo I want with a turntable and not outrageously expensive amps etc. A lot of good suggestions here on how to prep for these demos.
Mike |
I was going to let this thread die a natural death but thought of one more question before I travel to audition some speakers next week. I've been sensibly advised that during speaker demos not to let to let dealers get away with using equipment that is too high end or overly expensive to honestly demo the speakers.
My question is, what would a reasonable ballpark figure be for a integrated amp or preamp/amp combination an audio dealer should use during a demo of $10,000 speakers. I'm only guessing in the $5000 range, but really don't know. I do know what kind of turntable and CD player I will be using already and can gauge that equipment in a demo accordingly.
Again I'm only looking for a ballpark price range on an amp or amp/preamp. to reasonably match the quality of whatever speaker I'm demoing and end up choosing. Price is a crude measure, but I want to ask them to switch theirs out if it's such a high quality component that I wouldn't get a legitimate demo. Hope I'm making sense here. Thanks for any advice and wish me luck.
Mike
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Shkong, thank you, yours is a reasonable suggestion. I'll keep it in mind when shopping for amps too, sometime in the future.
JackD, Good suggestion, Command Performance is actually my first planned stop. Spoke to them only a few days ago. They carry Magico and Focal, both of which I'd like to hear.
Inna, How dare you disagree with me? (just kidding) I suppose there's no reason not to do it both ways, both to hear what the speakers are capable of doing, as well as what I might expect to be hearing at home if I don't win the lottery. I'll do the volumes changes and walk about the listening room when listening as you suggest also. Thanks for your suggestions.
Audiokinesis, thank you for your interesting out of the listening room suggestion to check how natural the reverberant field sounds, which as you say will correlate with possible listener fatigue. I will definitely try that out, and would have never thought of doing so without you suggesting it..
Mike |
Thanks for mentioning the Neat speakers Larry. I've never heard of them before. I'll look at them while I'm at Command. I'll make sure I explore normal listening levels as you suggest too. Deja Vu does sound interesting. I'm probably going to have to overnite in DC to take in all these places and speakers. Thanks
Kalali, I will definitely try listening from an adjacent room as you and Duke suggest, even if they think I'm leaving or ducking out. I can probably dig up some live acoustic music to bring along too. I think I might have some old well recorded live acoustic ECM label recordings I could locate. Thanks,
Mike |
Inna. I will take you advice to keep within my budget. This money's coming straight out of my life savings so I have to limit myself. There will be no extra $1000 spent. Thanks
Tomic60, I'll keep your list of integrated amp recommendations for further research. I'll have to take a breather for a while after getting the speakers, before purchasing anything else. My new VPI turntable and now speakers is plenty enough to accomplish in one year without being irresponsible. If I win the lottery that will change immediately.
Steve, thanks for relating your story. I was really wanting to hear back from you because I seriously do not want to replicate your dilemma. I'm glad you finally found your solution. I'll look up whether the Hegel amps are still in production, and if so include them in my next round of research.
Twoleftears, those locations are exactly my planned stops. I'm going to plan out my route tonight, find a hotel online, and call up each location I haven't yet, to make sure they have suitable equipment and the correct model speakers set up for demoing. You've obviously made the rounds up there. I was thinking about swinging by Richmond on the way home to check out Audio Art. But that's out of the way and probably overkill unless I'm having too much fun.
Our local dealer in Roanoke, Audiotronics, informed my he is carrying Monitor Audio now and can set up a demo of their PL200 II, so maybe I'll check that out. He's looking to carry Focals as well, so maybe we're moving into audio high end territory down here in the boonies. Thanks again
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Twoleftears, good call. It is Audio Exchange on West Broad St. I was thinking of, not Audio Art. As far as the "boonies go, my next door neighbors are cows, so I'm feeling this locale qualifies for that appellation. I love the countryside though, and wouldn't leave it for the world. I left the New York City suburbs as soon as I hit adulthood, and never looked back. At times like this though, when looking for audio equipment, I do miss the trappings of civilization .
Mike |
Jafant, I'll probably be leaving early Wednesday, unless the weather is too bad. I'll get the trip together tomorrow, with directions to get to each dealer there, a notebook that includes among other things, suggestions provided here for listening at demos, records and CD's to bring along, and making phone calls to each dealer in advance to make sure everything is in order on their end.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the suggestions and information you all have provided here. Hope I can return the favor someday.
Calvinj, Evolution Audio carries Revel and I'll be stopping there. I'd like to hear Revel's F228BE if possible, which if I remember correctly, is right at my price point.
Mike |
Calvinj and kalali, wish I had time to track down a copy of Toussaints "Bright Mississsipi’ but I’m leaving early tomorrow to audition speakers. Thanks for the recommend anyway. I’ll try and find it before next years amp buying tour.
Twoleftears, I’m on it with the notes. Good point about earlier speaker demos being at a disadvantage.
By the way Evolution Audio indicated they couldn’t be bothered with "lugging turntables or CD players around the store" for demos. It was streaming or nothing. I let them know they could go with the nothing. Too bad because I would have liked to have heard the Aerial Acoustic 7T’s there, as well as the Paradign Persona 3F’s. I might be able to catch the Paradigms in Richmond and the Monitor Audio’s back home in Roanoke. Amazing how someone will blow off a potential $10,000 sale. All the other dealers were quite gracious in contrast. There’s a lot to be said for good service. Might be able to do the trip in one day now is the silver lining.
Ozzy, the Magico A3’s will likely be at my first stop tomorrow. I’m looking forward to hearing them. The dealer did warn me that orders are back-logged through February,
Jafant, I'll post my results soon as I'm home. Thanks for asking.
Mike |
Kalali,, you're right about dealers using the music streaming services. But that's not what I was asking for since I don't use streaming myself, instead mostly vinyl records, some CD's. I don't know what happened to the "customer is always right " axiom.
Calvin j, thank you.
Steve59, Thanks for your suggestions, but the the method you suggest while having a lot of merit is impractical for my location and access to dealers. And I honestly don't want to be buying, shipping and selling used equipment for demo purposes at my home, or to be taking a year to do this. Call me crazy or lazy, but I'm not that ambitious. I'd give you credit if you've gone to that extent. My upgrade path ends here too. My DQ 10's lasted me 40+ years. At that rate. That will make me age 106 before needing new speakers again. After upgrading my amp/preamp, I plan on spending money on source material instead of upgrades, until I hit 106 that is.
Jones4music, If I had PeeWee's bicycle I'd pedal that over to the dealers to complete the picture.
Sounsrealaudio, I would llike to take in The upcoming Washinton DC audio show. It would be nice to audition all eleven of the speakers still extant on my list of possibles, all recommend by you all (or youse, as we say in NY.).
Jafant, I promised you an update when I got back, so here it is a truncated, but still long, version.
After a lot of research, I narrowed down my search, from the eleven possible speakers on my "not so short" list. Some were eliminated due to aesthetics, some to being ported designs less favorable to the close to the wall location my listening room requires, some such as the Spendor D9 and Lawrence Audio not being available anywhere close enough, the Revel F228BE's because they are Chinese-made and I'm too leery of the quality control issues endemic to Chinese products of any sort, and the Magnepan's becaus they wouldn't fit or go well in my listening room. I was also disappointed to eliminate the Aerial Acoustic 7T's and Monitor Audi PL200 II's I had hoped to listen to at Evolution Audio before dealing with the aforementioned problem with that dealer's service yesterday. My new short list became the Vandersteen Treo, Devore Gibbon Super 9 , the Magico A3's, and the ProAc D48r.
The Vandersteens Treo's, first up at Gifted Listener, did best on realistically reproducing female vocals. I brought along Chrissie Hind's "Learning to Crawl" Pretender's album to listen to "A Thin Line Between Love and Hate" which I love, and listened to a live Alison Krauss record they had on hand . Both sound full bodied and beautiful. The Treo's were a little light on the bass response. Gerry Mulligan meets Ben Webster's remaster CD sounded wonderful too on the Treos, but the Cannonball Adderly Rudy von Gelder remastered Something Else CD (with Miles Davis as a sideman) sounded so muddy I thought I brought along a poor CD for auditioning. I have to mention the dealer was gracious and helpful at Gifted Listener.
Next stop was Command Performance to listen to the Magico A3 and Devore Gibbon Super 9. Again dealer service was excellent. The Magico A3 did not do as well as the Vandersteen in reproducing Chrissie Hind's voice. She sounded less full-bodied and real, even so far as feeling further back in the track's mix. On the other hand the Cannonball Adderly was outstanding. The instruments were well defined and articulated. The bass (Sam Jones) was crisp and not boomy, and Milles Davis never sounded better. What a difference. Maybe it had something to do with the amp too. I had also brought along an obscure ECM world music recording, Brazilian Egberto Gismonti's "Sol Do Meio Dia, album because ECM records have their own distinctive open, clean sound. That recording also makes the VU meters on my old Phase Linear amp recording jump around wildly. That recording sounded great on all of the speakers demoed, and a $40,000 Focal they let me listen to for fun.
The Devore's sounded more smooth than the Magico's, somewhere between the Treo and them. I also listened to my all time favorite Rock n' Roll album, the Stone's poorly recorded "Let It Bleed". The Magicos revealed it's every fault. Mick Jagger sounded like he was singing with a garbage can over his head. The album sounded poorly on all speakers. On the other hand Los Lobos remastered "Kiko" album's driving "That Train Don't Stop Here Any More" sounded great on all speakers, but particularly riveting on the the Magico A3's. All instruments were crisp, no boomy bass. The midrange had punch.
All in all, I really liked the Magico best. For instrumental music it had the most detailed, well articulated sound at various volumes with a good soundstage. I listen to a lot of 50's jazz, more than vocal music, no offense Aretha, Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald or many others I love to listen to. The Devores had a smoother sound and undoubtedly would lessen listener fatigue. They sounded somewhere between the Magico's and the Vandersteens. The Magico's were so good at revealing each instrument I had to have them.
So I plunked down a check, blew off the ProAc demo in my excitement, and traveled home. Others must like the Magico's too because I've got to wait until February to get them, they are so far back-ordered. Can't wait.
Thank you all so much for your guidance and education on buying these expensive speakers. I could not have done this without all your help and the knowledge you've shared. I had not even heard of most of the speaker's brand names before. You're the best.
Mike
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Thanks Tomic60. The Magico purchase saved you a trip flying out to Roanoke to set up Vandersteen Treo’s. The Treo’s came in a close second to my ears, and were great recreating vocal performances. Don’t see how anybody could go wrong with them.
Larryi, I’m sorry I missed my planned third stop at Deja Vu. I got so excited after listening to and buying the Majico A3’s I completely forgot my planned stop there. I had a message from them when I got home, so I called them back today and offered my apologies for standing them up after they had set up the ProAc’s for demoing. The good news is I still get excited about audio equipment at age 66. I’ll be sure stop to at Deja Vu next year when I’m auditioning amps, since you’ve made them sound so intriguing.
Mike
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My apologies fsonicsmith, don’t know what I was thinking. Everybody misspells my last name, O’Neill too, so I’m usually conscientious about that type of thing. I won’t fail you again.
Tomic601, you’re lucky to have seen the Pretenders live. The closest I’ve ever come is listening to a drunken Clyde McPhatter and the Platters sing "Yes, I’m the Great Pretender" on stage at my college at a golden oldies show. I always figured the Pretenders named themselves after that song.
Thanks prof. I was actually quite influenced by your extensive post and reviews of so many speakers in that price range. Your post helped narrow down my search considerably. I read you review of the Magico A3 , Vandersteen and the Devore speakers twice.
I couldn’t get past how well the 50’s jazz selections sounded on the Magico’s. Just the right sonic qualities for my listening taste I suppose. I hope they sound half as good at home, especially until I can upgrade my old, but still functioning Phase Linear 400 amp and 4000 preamp.
Another thing I liked, having nothing to do with sonic qualities, is the Magico A3’s appearance. They seem to be designed to blend in with a decor, not be a jewel in their own right as some are. I’ve antique furniture pieces in the same room and I don’t desire twenty-first century modern design speakers competing with them, or drawing attention to themselves. Instead, blending in as much as possible is the goal. That being said, the A3’s do look good in their own right with a stylish subdued industrial look that should fit in with my other electronics, and provide a pleasing contrast to the mahogany wood in the antiques. We’ll see. My old Dahlquist DQ10’s were admittedly always an eyesore in this room and referred to as "big black holes" on many occasions I did not thoroughly enjoy.
I wish the old Thiels were still being manufactured. Your’s sound wonderful as described. I talked about them with the Vandersteen dealer.
Mike
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Allangard. Magico does make a unique and good looking grill for the A3's. Costs $600 a pair. I ordered them at the same time as the A3's at Command Performance who had them on their demo model. Check out this link. Give the page a second to load before you scroll down:
https://www.magico.net/product/a3.phpMike
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Ozzy, you’re right there. The Magico A3’s can really put a spell on you. Good luck and have fun.
Jafant, thanks for taking an interest. And thanks for describing your listening experience with the Aerial 7T and the Revel. I usually like to be thorough researching and checking into any product I’m buying, especially at these prices. I really should have been more OCD and auditioned more speakers after the amount of reading I did on each of them. Your statements about those two models makes me feel a bit better about not having done so. Those Magico’s did grab me though.
Do you still have Thiels? Shame they went out of business. Would have liked to have heard them.
Well, it’s on to researching integrated amps next.
Mike
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Thanks Thomas, I'll google your amp. I've got a thread going on amps now so I can start to sort that subject out.
Thanks Steve, there sure were a lot of recommendations as you say. I did research each and every one of them though.
Hmm, Alon Wolf recommends the $6000 h360, but then demos with the $15,000 h30. Lots of used car type salesmanship in the audio market I'd say. There's a couple of Hegel dealer hereabouts in Virginia, within 3 or 4 hours anyway.
I hear what you're saying about saving money from your retirement fund, as the Magico's depleted mine by $10,000+. I'm still good though. It would have taken forever to save up for them on Social Security and a pension, so I'm glad to have them now while I can still enjoy them for hopefully another twenty years or so. A $15,000 amp however is out of the question. I can still hear my late wife grousing about my new tractor purchase when I retired. Here's hoping she doesn't read Audiogon in heaven and finds out about the ten grand Magico's. Take it easy Steve.
Mike.
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Firstnots, woud have liked to have heard some Joseph Audio speakers, but the closest dealer was in Pennsylvania, too far away.. I'm in SW Virgina. I'd be curious how you thought the more expensive Joseph speaker you listened to compared to the Magico A3's if you track a pair down to demo. Those Spendors D-9's are hard to track down to demo too. Their USA distributo, Bluebird something or other, was not very helpful. After two contacts with them I gave up. A couple of days ago a dealer in Richmond I was talking to about amps, said he carried them, but I'm not sure though he has them on his showroom floor for demo. I'll check if I go up there as they were on my short list to have demoed. Good luck on your search. The Magicos might be worth the trouble of tracking down. I sure liked them.
Gosta. Thanks for your input on the Tannoys and ATC's, but I happily purchased the Magico A3's Wednesday.
Mike
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Oleso, I'll take a look.
Mike |
Yeah, I've ordered the Magico A3's already, but don't mind the continued suggestions. Better than people throwing bricks at you.
Mike |
Thanks Jafant. I've got another longish thread going in the Audiogon Amps section trying to learn the ins and out of integrated amps, and what models to look at. That's another steep learning curve.
Chriissian, I don't think I was the one making the Chinese junk statement, although it sounds like something that might come out my mouth. I've been burned so many times by so many Chinese products of all sorts, I'm leery of spending money on anything from there. I've no doubt your Revels are of the highest quality, and the F228BE's were high up on my short list. You know the expression, "once bitten twice shy". That's where I'm at with any Chinese products. It's definitely not all junk, but so much of it is, you can't possibly ignore it.
As it is, I may, end up getting a Chinese-made Hegel H360 amp in spite of myself, not yet having found a suitable alternative in my price range. I'm not done looking yet though. And I've no idea what may be going on over in Indonesia either, other than the poor orangutans are in rough shape. Enjoy your Revels, and take it easy.
Mike
Time for this thread to RIP. Thanks again all. |
Ozzy, I was informed they should be in February when I got them a couple of weeks ago. Apparently they’re selling quite well which is a good sign I suppose. I paid one half down on them.
Where will you be going to hear them? I was fortunate that the dealer I went to had the optional grills so I could see them. They look nicer with them if you can afford the $600 up charge. I bet you’ll like the A’3’s. I honestly liked them more than some other more expensive speakers I’ve heard. Very revealing, exacting sound with a tight punch that sets them apart. I’m no reviewer, but you’ll see when you listen to them. Only my uneducated taste though. Have fun.
Mike |
Ozzy, when researching tubes versus solid state amp for the Magico A3's I've found opinions all over the place. I've read where people point out the Magico A3's perform well, and may even have been designed utilizing solid state amps. Alon Wolf does recommend the solid state Hegel H360 to go with them.
On the other hand, I've read that the A3's are not "warm" sounding and would definitely benefit from pairing with a tube amp. I'd be interested in hearing what your opinion is if you demo your Carver Raven 350 tube amp with them. I ended up purchasing a Luxman 507ux Mark II solid state integrated amp to go with them since Mr. Wolf had recommended the solid state Hegel integrated. But I did not demo a tube amp with them and would have liked to have in retrospect. (I didn't get the higher output Hegels themselves because I mistrust Chinese manufacturing practices.)
I looked up your Ravens and they were listed as providing 400 watts into 4 ohms which is well above the 50-300 watts into 4 ohms impedance that Magico recommends for the A3's, and exactly the maximum output of the Hegel H360's. (My Luxmans max out at 210 watts into 4 ohms) So you would think they'd have enough juice to power the Magicos, but maybe other factors are just as important. I really don't know.
I'll bet your Raven 350's will last forever. My Carver designed Phase Linear equipment is still running strong after forty years and my sisters all-Carver outfit the same. Good luck and happy hunting. Keep us posted.
Mike
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Bjesien, Thank you. I’ve Magico A3 speakers on back order, due in this coming February. I’ll hook the Luxman up to my old Dahlquist DQ10’s in the meantime. I’ll post how it sounds when the Magico’s arrive for sure. I spoke to a Luxman tech today who informed me they are using the Magico A3’s to demo their amps at audio shows. I was pleased to hear that, so they should be nicely matched.
Inna, thanks for the advice on record cleaners. The salesperson who sold me the Luxman recommended the Okki Nokki too. I do have 99% of my records in soft plastic, not sure if they are Mylar, inner sleeves. They probably do all need a good washing though, since they’ve been around for so long, even if they have been treated well. I’ll have to get some of the Lyra stylus cleaner you recommend. I ran out of stylus cleaner many years ago and have been dry brushing since. I might have used rubbing alcohol once or twice on my B&O’s stylus. Also I accidentally located my Zerostat antistatic gun that’s been missing for a decade or so, so I’ll start using that again too.
Mike |
Thanks Glupson,. Your post was a pleasure to read. Like you, I do like the retro looks of the Luxman. And who wouldn’t love those big old VU meters. The Luxmans are solidly constructed as well. The quality control is obvious inside and out and bodes well for how well the Luxman should stand up over time. The aluminum clad Magico’s looked solid as a rock too. Which Luxman amp do you have?
You were exactly right about streaming only audio stores. They must be doing well to afford to turn away analog fans.
I can’t wait until February either to hook those Magico’s up either. Gives me something to look forward to.
Please feel free to chime in on my other thread. I need to be enlightened on modern audio cables, where that thread on amps has ended up landing. I’ve been sorry to discover my retro zip cords just aren’t cutting it anymore. Take care,
Inna, you are correct, My old Dahlquist DQ10’s will get a few months of high quality input, before they’re supplanted.
Mike
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Inna I read a Stereophile review of the LAST record preservative. Very interesting. About how many records can you treat with one bottle of LAST? Music Direct claims you can clean 80-90 albums with one bottle, but they sell three different size bottles and don't specify which one they're referring to.
Mike |
Neal, thanks for the advice. I did recently end up getting the Luxman 507uX Mark II with 210 watt per channel into 4 ohms which I hope should be sufficient to drive them. That adventure was documented on my recent amp thread which ended up morphing into a speaker cables thread. I did call Krell which Magico recommended prior to settling on the Luxman. Magico is currently demoing at shows with the Luxman 509(?), I think, which is one model higher up their line of integrated amps.
I looked up a review of your Audience 24SX cables. Sounds like you made a good choice there, although one that’s unfortunately over twice my $1000 budget. Magico recommended Audioquest Rocket 88’s, and MIT or Transparent speaker cables. I might end up with the Rocket 88’s because Magico uses them at their show demos, or their next one up their line, Castle Rocks, if I can find a pair used for the same money.
I’m looking forward to their arrival in February, but not to having to haul both upstairs. Glad to hear you like your’s. I’ve been researching Shunyata and Audioquest power conditioners to give them a yet cleaner, noise free sound. Take it easy,
Mike
Names2, I’ll check out your site.
Omargaffar, sounds like you’ll have a great sounding system with all those goodies. Any idea when your are supposed to arrive?
Inna, thanks for the info on the LAST record treatmnet..
Mike |
Otinkyad, The speakers on my list were:
Aerial Acoustics 7T $11,000.00
Legacy Focus SE $10,600.00
Magico A3 $9,800.00
Monitor Audio PL200 II $11,500.00
Paradigm Persona 3F $10,000.00
ProAc D48r $10,900.00
Revel F228BE $10,000.00
Spendor D9 $10,000.00
Vandersteen Treo CT $8,400.00
VonSchweikert Endeavor E3 Mk2 $8,000.00
Devore Gibbon Super 9 $9,9000
There was also a Joseph Audio model I had listed, but the closest dealer was just too far away in Pennsylvania. I had the Golden Ear Triton Reference on the list too but no dealers nearby either.
I’ve since thrown all my notes away, but some of the things I was looking at was how clear and detailed their presentation was, what equipment was being used to demo them. You have to insist, and best call ahead of time, if you want them demoed with equipment similar to what you have or plan to get,. Otherwise they often use way better amps and sources than you’ll ever be able to get. Some refuse to even do that.
I took notes on how tight the bass response was, the quality of the upper midrange and treble response. Also their appearance, size, and how well they’d fit into our home without clashing with its furnishings. A lot of the towers especially are big, garish and imposing looking. I also had to find out how close they could be placed to a wall, as I had to place them close as possible, and whether they were ported or not, as I was avoiding ported ones due to the wall closeness issue. I had dealers move the speakers as close to the wall as possible, even when I could see the were getting annoyed as they can weigh a ton and took notes on that.
I also took notes on how each recording I brought along sounded as well as a couple I had them pick out, that they knew would show off the speakers well. There might of been other things I’m not recalling but that should give you a good start. Also overall impressions and anything distinctive about their sound. I also noted how well they sounded at varied sound levels and from outside the room for reasons explained in the thread by others.
Happy hunting. It’s a lot of fun. Watch out and note if some dealers are getting slick or not being helpful, because you might have to deal with them again if you have any problems. I ran into a couple of them. I noted how the speakers would be shipped if not in stock. If you're hours away from the store they can find out for you if the manufacturer will direct ship to your house. Magico will they found out, which is what I'm having done. Hope this helps.
Mike |
That’s exactly how I felt Freesole.. I didn’t get to hear the Proacs. They were to be my next stop to audition on my trip to DC, but I was so impressed by the Magico’s I just had to have them. Their sound was just so crisp and clear, and had an un-speaker like quality I couldn’t easily describe. Even some extremely expensive speakers I’ve heard didn’t have it. I’ve heard Quad electrostatics with that quality, and an old Ohm tower years ago that had that aspect in the upper frequencies, but not top to bottom.
On a much, much smaller scale, it was a little like when I met my wife of many years for the first time, thinking "wow". Sounds stupid, but it is analogous. When she was available a couple of years later I couldn’t marry her fast enough. Couldn’t buy those Magico’s fast enough either, which is why I forgot to go to the Proac demo. I’m hardly the impulsive type either, but knew I’d found what I wanted.
I expect I’ll be happy with those A3’s indefinitely too, plus write one check and you’re done, no courting involved. Real life should be as straight forward. Take care,
Mike |
Freesole, good luck with your choice and the same with convincing your better half. Choosing a speaker will be the easiest of the two tasks I'd imagine.
Otinkyad, you're very welcome. Don't hesitate to ask if I can be of any assistance. Others on this site know way more than I ever will about this equipment, so it's nice to be able to give back in some small way.
Mike
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Tseliot. thanks for your good word on the Luxman amp and your tip on the Audience cables. I bought my first, to me, pricey power cord today for my newly purchased used Shunyata Denali 6000S power conditioner. I called Shunyata and they recommended, not surprisingly, their own Shunyata Venom cord, which they were running a sale on for $175.00 (usually $300) through their online dealer network.
I’m not convinced it will work any better than a shielded hospital grade 12AWG power cord, but what do I know except I don’t know, so I’m going to get one of those too. Then I can do a side by side comparison. I don’t think the Venom power cable would be any worse, and its not a fortune thrown away if their performance is the same. I’ll be trying the same experiment with returnable Rocket 88 speaker cable versus some Belden cables. I wish you were close by and I could demo your Elrod Power Cord too. I really need to hear the difference between various types cord and cables to convince myself what’s real and whats hype, before I throw real money at them.
How do you like your Audience AR6 power conditioner? My Shunyata Denali is the first power conditioner I've ever owned. Before I started reading on this site I'd not even heard of them before.
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Jsqt. Thanks. When I get my Magico A3's in February and my new system set up, I'll send you a pm if you'd like to come over and give them a listen. I was over Audiotronics a week or two ago listening to them demo a couple of speaker cables on their Klipsch speakers. Maybe they were LaScalas like yours. I didn't note which model Klipsch model they were though. You're fortunate to have the Luxman 509X. That's the model they are using to demo the Magico A3's at shows now. I really wanted one, but had to reign myself in and drop down a model after spending so much on the Magico's. Luxman's have such a nice build quality.
I think somebody mentioned to me there was some type of audio club in Roanoke years ago, but probably long gone by now.
Mike |
Same to you Jafant and many more! |
Jafant, the dealer checked with Magico a couple weeks ago and they said they should be ready to ship the end of this month. Can't wait. Thanks for asking,
Mike |
Thanks Elizabeth. It’s been a long wait since October 3, but I’m excited the day is close at hand. Every time the phone rings I think it’s the shipping company trying to schedule delivery. They’re over a hundred pounds each, so you and Jafant should come over to help me move them up a flight of stairs to the entertainment room. Take care,
Mike |
