SACD VS Vinyl for Jazz and Classical

Howie, I'm a vinylholic. I'll stay that way. I've been told I'm incorrigible on this issue, and I agree. But, my answer for my musical enjoyment may not be yours by a long shot. Why would you want to get into vinyl? There's a vast selection of CD titles in both the new and used CD market to chose from, there are many wonderful digital era performances that have been exceptionally well recorded that will never appear on LP, and there are CD reissues of virtually all of the classic performances of jazz and classical music from the vinyl era. For a CD user, the world's your oyster. Some of my best audio friends have digital-only systems, and their systems sound incredibly good to me.

People talk about the superior sound of vinyl, so do I. My system is all based on vinyl because I believe that. AND, well reproduced CDs/SACDs can and do sound very very good.

So, here's one vinylholic asking, why would you want to go the vinyl route? You've really got to answer that one for yourself based on your listening experience, your sonic priorities, and availability of the music you like. Going down the vinyl path is not easy, it requires a commitment on multiple fronts.

If your consideration is based on thinking that vinyl sounds better, get real clear about your own perception of this. Any difference you hear between vinyl and digital ought to be meaningfully important to you to justify the trouble you'd be going to to go down the vinyl route.

And yes, the LP versions of several of the contemporary recordings by folks like Diana Krall, Alison Krause, Norah Jones sound better. So? There are a ton of other recordings out there on CD/SACD that will never see an LP reincarnation.

My suggestion: find someone local to you who's into vinyl and has a good LP playback setup who'll do some listening with you. Spend time with it. Then think about whether you're getting anything out of it that your current digital setup is not giving you, and if so, is the difference worth it to you. And don't be too surprised if you like the sound of your current digital system better.

Best of luck to you in your search,

I was in the same boat about year and a half ago. Do I continue to buy classical reissues on SACD or go for the vinyl? I think both SACD and vinyl are an "itch" that needs to be scratched. Every audiophile seems to need to try them at least once in his or her life, then draw their own conclusion as to the viability of the format for that person. Each person is unique in that regard.

I tried SACD. But then realized I could not only buy classical reissues on vinyl (if I so wanted them at $30+ a pop), but also tap a vast potential of half a century of existing releases (ncluding original pressings) and new recordings. And with the exception of new classical recordings, you can find lots of new music on vinyl. I'm currently enjoying lots of heavy metal, death metal, black metal, symphonic metal, prog metal, industrial, hardcore, metalcore, trash, speed. And some of this stuff isn't available on CD. None of it is available on SACD. Plus I have access to lots of $1 used classical LPs in VG and NM condition. I still plan to expand my SACD collection with new classical recordings at some point. But lately I'm too entralled with vinyl to care.

Yeah, you can get great sonics with LP. But have of the fun is rediscovering your love of music, music collections, and just plain having barrels of fun exploring new (to you) stuff. I just get more mileage out of my vinyl front end than I ever could with my SACD one.

and the majority of my purchases will be reissues, will there be enough new vinyl available?

FWIW, I imagine vinyl will outlast SACD as a niche audiophile format. So you should be OK. But for a quick "acid test" you can try browsing the vinyl catalogs at the unsual audiophile mailorder haunts, e.g., acoustic sounds, music direct, red trumpet, elusive disc, etc. Only you can see if what is available is enough for you.

Plus you'll have to see how you and the drawbacks get along. Cleaning, adjustments, dealing with surface noise, flipping the record over every 20 minutes. You get the idea. IF you're only in vinyl for maximum sound quality for a handful of recordings, you may end up with a very high-end rig. Sure the records run $30 each (often $50+ for 45rpm versions). But you may end up with $6000 in hardware to play 60 records. And that's $100 per record just in equipment costs. I might consider a Meitner CDSD/DCC2 in that case and enjoy redbook and SACD in "close to analog" fashion. That might be a better return on your money. That way you wouldn't have to split your focus and budget between two front ends.

But then you'd still have the little-guy-with-a-pitchfork on you right shoulder tells you fanciful tales of "how much better this would be if you were listening to vinyl rather than digital." As Howard Stern would put it, (paraphrased) "that's an equation from hell." Especially since you have no LPs right now.

To me vinyl needs to be about the music as much or even more than the sonics. YMMV. It's a tough call. Everyone's answer is going to be different on this one. And yes, the sonics are better. Oops did I just say that? My bad, LOL! I'm not helping. Bad Aroc. Bad! ;-)

Good luck!

Aaron

Well I'm not selling my SACD player or anything. But there are few good reasons for me to want to get into vinyl.
1) There are quite a few jazz recordings that are on cd and vinyl but not yet on SACD (don't know if it'll ever be). Since I want to buy these anyways, I might as well buy the best version. Right now, at least for the music that I like, if I already own the cd version, I would seriously think about buying the SACD version if owners of two versions tell me that there is a difference. For many recordings that were first issued before the digital era, I feel the redbook version seems a bit dead and lacking the vinyl's naturalness and warmth. So I've been restraining myself from buying the redbook version in hopes that it'll be reissued on SACD, whether there ends up to be an improvement or not.

2)I've been thinking of upgrading my source for a while. But having a mid-priced SACD player, and not being able to afford the Emmlabs as of yet, there doesn't seem to be too many midpriced options that would be a significant setup at $3000 vs $3000 spent on a vinyl rig.

For some music, I listen to the performance and so sonics don't really matter. For others, sonics has a correlation with naturalness.

So basically, the idea, is that for material that are available in all 2 or 3 formats, I'll choose vinyl. But if it isn't on vinyl, it's not like I'll sweat it too much. But whether to get into vinyl in the first place vs saving up for a high end digital gear like the emmlabs is the question.

my take on this issue gents is simple,
VINYL IS SUPERIOR TO ANY CD FORMAT..ALBEIT SACD IS BETTER THEN STANDARD CD,
vinyl is for true audiophiles.....and for people who actually listen to the whole side of an lp ...not 1 or 2 songs one side then pop another lp on the deck.
vinyl is always upgradeable....cart,tone arm, wires,etc

cd is just convient!!! eventually cd's are going to go away
and everything is going to become MULTI-MEDIA...
it has already began to happen with the incarnation of the IPOD......,
vinyl reissue jazz,blues, is available for 7.99 new sealed 120 grm from places like fantasy records...most 180 grm,are available for 12.99 and higher...classical stuff is also not hard to find especially at swap meets and such.

why would anybody want to spend 14-30 bucks on a format that is not selling to well...and will go away like mini discs......

general public always did and always will control the music
sales....

vinyl again is for true audiophiles.....yes its a pain in the tuhis...but it serves the music better and the intention of the artist.

i say.....buy all the vinyl possible.....even the thrash hardcore black metal..etc

what ever puts a smile on your face at the end of the lp!!

my 2 cents worth!

I bought a turntable a few months ago pretty much for classical music. I know nothing much about classical music so am not about to find out the hard way ($15 a pop) which albums I like and which I do not. A 60 second sound-bite at Amazon.com does not help as it does with other types of music.

Vinyl in huge supply is very easy to find in my area at $1-$2 a pop in great condition and almost no one interested.

New vinyl...they can eat it at anything over $15 as far as I care...one of the reasons I own so few SACD's!

As far as my turntable goes...picked-up a great used Linn Axis for $400 that sounds great.

Dave

Unfortunately, I think if you are interested in accoustic music--especially complex classical symphonic works--then you will need to go to vinyl to get the best sound. I have auditioned some of the best digital players (and own a couple) but they still sound congested, lacking in detail and tonality. If I can get it on vinyl that is what I prefer although I have a lot of duplicates for when I go portable.

My 2 cents.vinyl addiction is more like religion.There is no way to convince them of the quality of sound you can get from top notch digital system. More to the point ,as I mentioned in previous threads a great red book player can outdo most sacd players.ie my Reimyo 777 sounds better than my sony xa9000es on hybrid sacd. Some classical sacd are by far inferior to some of the excellent redbook.For jazz try the jvc XRCD they are very good.My recommendation spend your money on the top digital front end and stay away from vinyl.
ramy

you guys make me laugh....it shouldn't be called audiogon ...Egos Anonymous...is more to the point

One thing to consider, there are rumors that SACD is on its way out.

Vinyl has to many maintainence issues / hassles associated with it and the quality of sound from CD's and SACD's is so good IMO that I just do not want to go there. However, I do think that the high end vinyl rigs look fantastic. My friend has a Micheal Gyrodeck (not sure of spelling) and I love the way it looks.

The good high quality vinyl does sound good I am talking about the 180-250 gram virgin vinyl at about 35-50 bucks a pop minimum. I have about 150 pieces of vinyl in the basement and I don.t think any amount of cleaning will make them as quiet as my CD's.

Buy both. You will enjoy the contrast and comparison. You can remain judicious in selecting your choices. At current SACD and vinyl reissue prices I sure do.

As for sound I am betting you will become a believer in the merits of vinyl. I have SACD that beats my vinyl and vice versa. One of the fun things about this hobby is screwing around like that. I also enjoy the non audiophile crowd that come over and I am betting you will love the slack jawed reaction of "I cannot believe that is a record playing" (that pride of ownership thing).

You having no vinyl collection is kind of a plus. You will have "virgin" vinyl and can go with your taste. Buy some LAST treatment, take care of it, and it will sound great 25-30 years later. I can make that statement from experience. Fiddle with records, cartridges, alingments, tonearm cables, record cleaning machines, it is fun and rewarding. As time progresses you can get deeper or bail out.

Never sold my turntable or vinyl when digital hit and I stayed in the trenches. I upgraded my vinyl a few years back by trading a Sony SACD for a SOTA sapphire. One of my personal best moves in audio.

Have Fun.

Thanks for the responses guys. Ya the problem is that I do want to have the ability to play vinyl and not be restricted on that front. But of cousre I can also make use of the money saved. It's one reason why I've been sitting on the fence for so long. At my local record store, I see records that I want on vinyl, but they're also much more expensive. I lied, I actually have ONE record at home because I liked the CD that my girlfriend has. I bought it when I last thought of getting into vinyl :D