I started using my DIY Lightspeed in 2007. Have loved it from the beginning.
I am now using a DAC with a 6np2 tube output stage the passive and 110w 6c33c otl mono's. Speakers are also minimalist in terms of no resistors in the signal path.
The Lightspeed remains a really great sound. However, I have recently built the Slagle AVC using his basic modules. To my ear, there is more micro detail in the AVC and it is the preferable device. Very Natural. Very detailed. very 3d. You could love either, and I expect its very system dependent.
I have learned that any form of resistor removes some of the micro level detail and deadens the sound. I think the LDR is one of the best resistors, but it is still a resistor.
I think Dave's AVC (AFTER 100 Hrs) takes it up a notch. Some may prefer the LS. It has a lot of air and the Pratt that everyone references. But to me it cuts out one layer of detail like any other resistor albeit a good one.
After I use the Slagle AVC for an extended period, I'll drop the LS back in and rereport. You can't go wrong with either if your system is up to using a passive. |
I think there are a couple LDR passive preamps out there with remote and multiple inputs. The names escape me at the moment though.
As for DIYing one perhaps the remote John Chapman sells could be put to use with a Lightspeed type design. Actually this is probably better discussed over in the Lightspeed thread at DIYAudio. Lots of people building them and discussing their projects. I am sure multiple inputs has been addressed but not sure about remote. |
It seems to me that someone with good DIY chops could build around a LSA to get two inputs in the highest quality way possible (i.e., without having to add another interconnect in the chain) and add some sort of motorized rim drive remote for the volume. Can live without remote for analog but not for music server playback.
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Yes he is missed around here. I introduced Paul to the Lightspeed and that was the common denominator that in essence started a very nice friendship between us. |
Clio09, I am very saddened to hear that. I have read many of Pubul57s posts.
Jim |
Please be advised that Pubul57 passed away this earlier year. You may want to go visit the thread he started on the Lightspeed attenuator. I have been using one for a few years now in my single ended system. I pair it with a Music Reference RM-10 amp. I also still have the Slagle and another unit I made with passive parts that produces voltage. So I am still on the passive band wagon for 2012 and Most likely beyond. |
Clio09 and PPubul57, curios about your current preamp thinking in august 2012? |
Tony, what actives have you compared these devices to and in what setting? What made you diverge away from an active pre-amp sonically? |
The simple way is to just get a source switch box, then you can have your cake and it too. So when you want to get the best out of your system you can still go direct, as I've have proved with my prototype, which does have two inputs with the best source selector switch available, the single input production Lightspeed Attenuators still sound a bit better every time I put them into my system to do listening tests before shipping out.
Cheers George |
I agree, but I think most folks would not choose to do that, lucky if we can get them to accept not having a remote:) |
Why limit it to single source. Like I mentioned I just swap the cables when I want to switch sources. A minor inconvenience for great sound. |
I was a bit skeptical that it would better the TVC and AVCs I previously owned, but it certainly as good, and they were quite a bit more money. This is a no brainer to audtion with any single source system. |
Got a Lightspeed Attenuator for myself. George said that I could wait 5 minutes before playing. Wasn't too sure after the 5 minutes, but as it stabilized, it came into its own and I'm convinced. I'm leaving it on 24/7 with the volume at 12 o'clock like George says.
No more edge on vocals or instruments unless it's meant to be there. Wasn't sure it could better my transformer based passive pre, but it's more liquid.
Wish there were two inputs, but I can live with one if it sounds like this.
Using Altec A7s with 2A3 amps. |
That is worthy competition indeed! My impression is the Lightspeed Attenuator is the best preamp I have ever owned or heard in other systems. More folks should try it against there 10-20K preamps and listen for themselves. I don't know what more I can say about it - it cost less than the NOS tubes in my other preamps:) |
That's not a pity, that's why it is so pure and so good. This coming from someone who has to keep swapping cables rather than use an input selector switch, as well as gets most of his exercise adjusting the volume manually;) |
Hi Pubul57, I was using Audio Research Reference. The Lightspeed is for me the very best. Pity it has only one input and no remote. |
Batalok, what were using before (for comparison and context). I feel the same way after having used CAT, Lamm, Joule, Atma-sphere, and Placette - pretty good stuff for this LS to go up against. |
I got the Lightspeed right now. All I can say, Wow. Stereo image is improved signifantly, brushes are more clear(strikingly good), piano becomes more "resonant", low end goes deeper, it all happens down deep there. Maybe the speakers (Master Contempory C, you will not regret it, on the contrary!) are the main reason for that, but for sure the Lightspeed adds another dimensionality. Good works George! |
There was no gain issue with my use of the Lightspeed with the S-30 I just acquired. However, the S-30 itself is a bit quirky right now. |
Well, I have spending a lot of time listening over the past few days, if for no other reason than to get over "new thing euphoria". I have also had two audiophile friends with good "credentials" come over for some listening sessions. All I can say is the Lightspeed Attenuator is the best sounding preamp I have used in my system with my Music Reference RM9 and RM10MKII amps, and my friends loved it too. Lack of dynamics, pace, or bass simply not issues in my set-up. It is as simple one input/output device and single-ended and, oh my god, no remote, but if it fits your ergonomic needs, and don't know if there is a better sounding preamp, and if there is, it would be so much more expensive as to make that pursuit meaningless IMHO. Not for everyone and all systems, but if it works for you, you are in for a real treat. At the price I would especially recommend it to those that have had success with TVC/AVCs and understand a little bit about the use of passives. Soon I will try it with the Atma M60 amps, though I think there may be a gain issue there, we'll see. |
Pubul57
There is something about the idea of a passive linestage that makes me think it has to be better of doing nothing destructive to the signal, and that in some way an active, any active simply does too much to a signal be as pure to the source. Assuming appropriate gain and impedance match.Pubul57
Hi Paul, there is a way you can see how little the Lightspeed Attenuator embeds it's own character onto the sound of the source. I don't tell many people to do this but if your careful it can show what colorations/distortions preamps passive or active are doing.
First plug your source directly into your poweramp and the put on a known very quite low level CD (have your finger on the stop button just in case) then get a cd/track that you think will be at your normal listening level and see what it sounds like, this is the purest sound you will get from your system. Note the level you were listening at, insert the Lightspeed and listen again at the same volume, I've done this many times to members of our audiophile society and they cannot pick if the Lightspeed was in or out of the system, yet when tried with other active/passive pre's they could distinguish the difference, this listening test shows how transparent the pre is. Saying that you will get people that like the colorations that some pres can give if the system is flawed and needs that coloration embeded on it.
Cheers George |
Here is your remote controlled Lightspeed. Albeit an optocoupler attenuator with J-FET buffer, and a steep price tag. Myth Audio |
It would be nice to get Terry's views on the LA as he has owned the Placette and Bent, and his current tube preamp, based on the review is very good indeed. There is something about the idea of a passive linestage that makes me think it has to be better of doing nothing destructive to the signal, and that in some way an active, any active simply does too much to a signal be as pure to the source. Assuming appropriate gain and impedance match. If, and that is a big if, Terry finds the LA competitive with the Concertr Fidelity I think alot folks have to start reconsidering their approach, and expense, of their preamps. To me, a preamp should be nuetral to the source signal (as Ken Stevens says, the color of water), and flavoring should come from the amp/speakers because we know all speakers will impart their flavor. |
I've got the Bent Tap-X which I really enjoy. The design and execution of the circuitry is excellent (utilizing fibre optics links to control the autoformer modules) and implementation of the optically encoded remote control is great. Now, how cool would it be to have John Chapman design LDR modules that could be interfaced with the Bent unit remote control circuitry. Personally, the only drawback to the Lightspeed Attenuator is the lack of remote control (volume, balance, mute etc.). I think the Bent remote functionality with LDR attenuator modules would be awesome. Maybe some of us Bent owners (or previous owners) should contact John and do some arm twisting!!!
Dave |
I'm in agreement with that and I think George stated as much above. Also, on the 6 input version of the TAP-X John Chapman included a remote controlled buffered output, so depending on source, one could select buffered or non-buffered mode. Now that's flexibility. |
Can we agree that with the right combination between source amp an ICs, that no buffering is needed, and if not needed for impedance matching no buffer is better than having one. In other words, no buffer is optimal, but a buffer is much more flexible.
Pubul57 (System | Threads | Answers) I think that's a great question for Steve McCormack. Not being someone who knows the fine points of component design, I can neither agree nor disagree. |
Can we agree that with the right combination between source amp an ICs, that no buffering is needed, and if not needed for impedance matching no buffer is better than having one. In other words, no buffer is optimal, but a buffer is much more flexible. |
I think Steve might just have the right combination with the VRE-1. He has always been a big proponent of a passive with active buffer. His preamp designs have always been well regarded and his older designs remain in high demand. |
It would be great to hear a comparsion of the LA up against the likes of the Concert Fidelity. Congrats on the XA.5s, I regret having sold my 30.5s, but 4 amps was getting a little ridiculous:) |
...addendum to the above.
I owned Pass Labs XA-60.5 amplifiers and mated them with the SMc Audio VRE-1. Exceptional results, IMO. |
Those who are considering the $18,000 Concert Fidelity CF-080 might also consider the US made SMc Audio VRE-1, which is also a "passive with balls" ($14,950). |
Terry,
I just received the other two components in the Silicon Arts Si2 microline today. Masa-san sent me the preamp and amp to evaluate with the DAC that I already had. The preamp in particular is supposed to have trickle down technology from the Concert Fidelity line.
It will be an interesting few weeks coming up to hear all this stuff. |
Paul, yes I did a review on the XA-60.5's here on the GON. I was surprized how much of a sonic difference, for the better, the 60.5's made in my system compared to the XA-100's. Yup, it would be fun to hear the L.A. in my system. Don't know if you read my review of my new reference, the Concert Fidelity CF-080, which replaced my Audio Valve Eklipse. You know there is no "BEST", however this is the best preamp I have ever heard. I recently described it as a passive with balls to an audiophile friend. Clio09 has heard the CF-080 at the CES show and has high regard for it also. This preamp is more not there then any passive I have ever heard, yet offers natural timbres, great image density, and the best macrodynamics I have ever had in my system. That's way the L.A. would have a very up hill battle in my system. The CF-080 gives me everthing a great passive offers, plus dynamics/prat which I have found missing in my system with passives in the past. If the L.A. would even come close for what it costs it trully would be one of the greatest bargains in all of audiophile land. |
Terry, have you reviewed and compared the XA60.5 on Gon? I loved the XA30.5, would be good to here your view of the L.A. if you get a chance to hear Anthony's. |
Hi Paul, I'm not using the XA-100's anymore in my system, they were replaced with XA-60.5's. Remember I bi-amp with a Bryston X-over, so I have never had an impedence matching problems with any active or passive linestage in my system.
Clio09, thank you for your very kind offer to lend me your Lightspeed piece, I'll send you an E-mail when I have some time to audition it. |
BTW - Roger will be addressing the next LA/Orange County Audio Society meeting at Brooks Berdan May 22. I can't wait to hear what he has to say. |
Anthony, it will be interesting to here your observations. My only concern with the M60s was their Input voltage for full output of 2.83V, but not sure if the S30 are the same. I'll be trying it soon. Really curious to hear what a minimalist passive like the LS will sound like with a minimalist circuit like the Atma-OTL. One would expect a very low level of distortion - pretty much like George describes it - connecting your source directly to the amp - with some means of controlling volume. Interesting article on Arthur Salvatore's sight as to why the passive preamp is the best approach and why if any active, at any price sounds better in ANY way, it just means you have an impadance/gain mismatch somewhere in your system - pretty much what Roger says. Of course, this does take a bit more vigilance in paying attention to the rest of the chain, but you know, it is well worth it when you get it right. |
Paul,
I purchased an S-30 so I'm going to give it a go too. Ralph said 2V would be enough, although I may need to use more of the volume control. |
Pass XA100's are very low input impedance, I think around 12k or 20k this is why Nelson designed a very simple 2 Fet buffer for the Lightspeed Attenuator, you can see it on my Lightspeed Attenuator forum on Diy Audio, it's for memory it's around page 135, or if you like tube buffers, I have posted the circuit for a SLCF (Super Linear Cathode Follower) page 320, it's about 100ohms output impedance, and probably the best buffer I have heard, but still the best buffer is no buffer if you get the impedances right as I've posted above.
Cheers George |
Teajay, if you are still using the Pass XA100s it would seem that the LS will be unsuitable, I'm not sure that an unbuffered passive would work with those amps. Tomorrow, I will try the Lightspeed with the Atma-sphere amps. They are not very sensitive, but I can swith the EMM Labs to 3.7v output so it should be able to drive them with no gain issues. |
I may have jumped the gun and have to appologise.
It looks as though your server or fire wall is doing the self editing, as if I try to insert the more than or less than signs (the V's on their side) it does the self edit thing, you guys need to fix this.
Cheers George |
OK lets see if this one gets through unscathed.
If I could just chime in here about the PRAT factor with the Lightspeed Attenuator. If you have a source (cdp or phono stage) that is less than 100ohms output impedance and power amps that are more than 50kohm (100kohm or more input even better) your PRAT factor if anything will be better than anything you've heard, it gives the impression that your listening to something like the old DBX units (Dynamic Range Enhancer) without all the pitfalls of those things.
Cheers George (Lightspeed Attenuator Manufacturer) |
Sorry again, you moderators are nutz your going to blow some ones system up if you keep editing my figures like that, you have know idea what your editing. I'll try a fresh post please leave it alone.
Cheers George
Cheers George |
George, you should just add on your signature that you are Lightspeed, or whatever the company name is, folks like to see that, even if it is obvious on this particular thread. |
Sorry, moderators have edited and stuffed up the figures in my last post.
Source output impedance (cdp or phono stage) should be less than 50kohm
Cheers George
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Geroge, do you mean the source or the amp? |
I would like to see a Teajay review, he does it a lot better than me. |
If I could just chime in here about the PRAT factor with the Lightspeed Attenuator. If you have a source that is 50kohm (100kohm or more input even better) your PRAT factor if anything will be better than ever, it give the impression that your listening to something like a DBX unit (Dynamic Range Enhancer) without all the pittfalls of those things.
Cheers George |
There was not a lot of difference in the Lightspeed and Slagle AVC in my system as I noted above. However, the ease at which the music flows with the Lightspeed in the system is quite impressive. It was very obvious versus the Audio Consulting, not so much versus the Slagle, but I believe this contributes to the PRAT that I hear with it, especially with digital music. Analog is off the charts with the Lightspeed. As Pubul57 mentioned, the soundstage holds up quite well versus actives.
Terry, I think for $500 its worth a try. I would be happy to lend you mine as well if you thought it made sense for you to try it. I would be interested in your impressions versus the Concert Fidelity. BTW - Masa-san is sending me the Si2 amp and preamp next week to try out. Should be interesting. |
Thanks Paul, your feedback helps me understand why your enjoying the Lightspeed so much. Yes, when I use the term image density that's my way of describing palapablty or 3D imaging. Sounds like there is no problem in that area with the Lightspeed.
Would my assumption that you have never lost PRAT or "aliveness" with this piece be correct compared to your active linestages? As Im mentioned before this was something that happened in my system and really got in the way of the music.
I do agree totally that for $500.00 this piece is one hell of a deal. |
