Hi All,
I have been reading this thread and just have to tell you where I am at with my CS5's and amp search.
My system used to be Maggie 3.6's but I obtained an inexpensive pair of CS3.6's which I liked a lot and then saw an ad for some CS5's so I said why not.
l ran an Oppo 105 modified by Ric Schultz, Prima Luna Dialogue Premium preamp, Cullen Cables, and W4S ST1000 with the Maggies and was quite happy.
With the CS5's, I needed a new amp. So...I was able to in home audition various amps. In my system, my thoughts:
Proceed HPA2 - harsh treble
Hegel H20 - delicate but got congested with complicated music
Mark Levinson 535H - sterile
Krell 302 evolution - the bass was okay but the treble was a bit shrill - 140 pounds - ugh
Pass X350 - great definition and bass but a bit polite - 130 pounds - ugh
So I took a chance and talked with Doug Dale at Coda. He had a new old stock CS with their Thermal Trac mod. 300 watts into 4 ohms and doubles down. 75 amps of current with peaks to 125 amps.
Sounds very good to my ear in my system. Very musical with lots of detail. The bass is as good, if not better than anything I have tried. Class A to 5 or 10 watts so it weighs in at 50 pounds and I can play it all day and it is only warm to the touch.
|
Hi,
I am listening to "Gerry Mulligan meets Ben Webster" on Verve right now.
Hegel HD 25 DAC, AudioSpace CD8 as transport, Prima Luna Dialogue Premium, Coda CS, and Thiel CS5's.
It sounds very good to me but I am wondering about the age of the Thiels.
How does one tell when it is time for new E Caps?
Dsper |
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the reply. Gives me some hope I have nothing to worry about with the caps.
Dsper |
Hi,
I am looking for some advice about the weak link in my system...
My room is 18 by 34 with room treatments on the front wall. Due to room logistics, my Thiel CS5's sit out from the front wall about 4 feet with 3 feet on one sidewall and 7 feet on the other side wall. I sit about 9 feet from the speakers, which are about 9 feet apart. Thus roughly half the room length is behind me.
My preamp is a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium and I listen to redbook CD's with a Hegel HD25 DAC using an AudioSpace CD8 with Phillips transport.
I have auditioned in home Krell, Parasound, Hegel, Levinson, and Pass amps among others. I liked a Pass x350.0 the best but it was huge and was a space problem.
My current amp is a Coda CS that sounds remarkably similar to the Pass to my ears. I have been told that Pass dealers do not like Coda because of the close similarity of sound and much tighter profit margins on the Codas..FWIW. The Thiels dip down to under two ohms and are inefficient but the Coda has no trouble with the bass.
The Coda stays in Class A for the first ten watts. It seems to me that the sound becomes too bright in the treble at high volumes. Maybe because the Coda leaves class A or perhaps it is the metal tweeters in the Thiels?
Anyway, I like a smooth, nuanced sound with detail and a deep sound stage. My head banging days are over as I seem to have gravitated to acoustic music, jazz, and female vocals.
So...assuming that I keep the Thiels, what is the weakest link in my system and what would be a good improvement and why?
I appreciate any feedback.
Thank you!
Dsper
|
tomthiel, I appreciate the advice, well not all of it.....the ceiling mirror thing.......:-)!
If I really think about it, it may be that the recordings are the problem. I am listening to some Chet Baker right now and I can play it as loud as I want with no problem.
More to think about.
I am wondering if a different pair of interconnects between the source and preamp would help? Of course, I would have no idea on where to start.
Thanks,
Dsper |
Thanks for the good ideas.
I do not think the length of my hookups is an issue. My speaker cables (thicker than lamp cord) are only about seven feet on a side. All of my interconnects are three or four feet long.
Tomtheil and Brayeagle's interconnect advice is worth exploring as I have not paid attention to interconnects at all. My component upgrades have been large positives so I have not gotten into the nuances of interconnects. Maybe I am getting to that point. I guess I will have to dig into the Cable Company website after all!?
Pwhinson, I am pretty happy with the Coda CS amp because it has the current to supply the CS5's; although, my local stereo store has a Hegel H30 that can be run in stereo mode! Also, I am itching to try a McCormack DNA 500. Can anyone comment on McCormack with Thiels?
I had been thinking about checking out different preamps, as my PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium is in for repair for the second time. The first time was when it was new and had a bad capacitor. Upscale Audio took care of it and says they will cover any required repair and shipping back to me for this second time, so they are standing behind the unit. The problems are starting to kinda bug though.
Anyway, back to the treble concern. I pulled the trigger on a Conrad-Johnson Premier 17LS-2 preamp. My thinking is that CJ is supposed to be on the bit darker and warmer side of things, and I am hallucinating this might help. There are good reviews on the unit and the 17LS was the only CJ or ARC preamp to receive all five star reviews on "Audioreview", FWIW. I have not tried that many preamps so I may have made a mistake here; I should know the answer to that question by the end of next week.
I appreciate the advice. keep it coming!
Dsper
|
Hi All,
This may be a dumb question based on earlier responses to my post about treble glare at high volumes.
Is it possible to improve the treble sound by using an amplifier that stays in Class A longer?
My Coda CS stays in Class A for the first ten watts. If another amp stayed in class A, say, for 20 watts, could it sound better in the treble at high volumes?
Does anyone possible know the bias for a McCormack DNA-500 amp?
Thanks for the help!
Dsper
|
Thieliste,
Try to audition a Coda CS.
Biased to class A for the first 8 watts and peak current of 100 amperes per channel. 300 WPC into 8 ohms and doubles down.
It has no trouble driving my Thiel CS 5's that go below 2 ohms.
I am listening to "Joe Pass: Virtuoso" right now and the bass is vibrating in my body.
Ooh la la!
Dsper
|
Hi All,
I posted earlier about a treble harshness with my Thiel CS5's. I redid the mirror along the wall test and installed a DIY sound absorber which seems to to have done the trick. The harshness is pretty much gone except for the most badly recorded albums.
Since the sound absorber journey, I acquired a Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS-2 preamp. The CJ replaces a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium and I have been switching between the two preamps.
In my system, both are good. I think if one wants to concentrate on the main vocal in a mix, the PL is probably a bit better, because it allows you to hear deep into the vocal. Overall, the PL provides a bit more organic bass. The CJ is more nuanced with a better sound stage and, perhaps most importantly, is more musical to my ear than the PL. This may be because of how the leading edges of notes are produced with the CJ. Also, the CJ has a better presence than the PL at lower volume levels.
Another change I have just made is to replace the Coda CS with a McCormack DNA-500. The DNA-50 sounds warmer, which is a matter of personal preference, and provides more textural detail to the music. At higher volumes the Coda could begin to sound a bit metallic and, I guess, compressed. The DNA-500 on the other hand, stays well composed regardless of the volume and never gets "edgy".
I know the DNA-500 is the better amp for my Thiels in my system. I keep changing out the two preamps and keep coming back to the CJ. The Coda CS and PL were good, but the CJ and DNA-500 are better because that combo is warmer and more nuanced with no solid state glare.
So I am a happy camper for now. My future plans are going to be around more experimentation with preamps and or replacing my Hegel HD20 DAC.
Any suggestions?
Thanks for listening!
Dsper
|
Hi jafant, I have not spent a lot of time with cabling as my moves with amps, preamps, and DACS tend to be going up the food chain and I see big improvements as I audition this type of gear. Having said that,
I use less expensive Cullen Cable interconnects
on single-ended short runs. These replaced the discount store garden variety and I could tell that the sound became cleaner and more detailed.
Interconnects scare me as I have no idea where to start and the prices seem to go absurdly high quickly.
My speaker cables are 14 gauge multi strand copper about ten feet long, which I think is short enough to not worry about cables too much. I have read too many articles about blind testing that indicate that listeners cannot tell a difference.I was also influenced by by Roger Russell who was the Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#differences. Thanks for listening Dsper |
Hi Rob,
Tube rolling can be a money pit if we are not careful!
The most expensive tubes I have purchased were $120 a pair so I can't comment on the "top end" stuff. I do notice that Brent Jesse often has high quality tubes that he calls "butt ugly" that are less expensive but the same tube as the more exotic stuff.
I have tried several kinds of 12AU7 tubes in my PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium. My general observation is that old European tubes sound better to me than old US tubes. I have not tried any new production tubes other than the stock tubes that came with the PL.
Mullard, Brimar,and Amperex sound better to me than Seiman and Telefunken. I find the German tubes are a bit too analytical for me although they sound clean and have great bass. The English and Dutch tubes are warmer sounding and just more comfortable. I have one pair of Mazdas I really like because they have that warmness and rich mid range along with the solid bass of the German varieties. The Mazda is about the only one I have contemplated laying out a couple hundred bucks per tube.
Having said that, it is fun to change them out as I get bored and try another one. This helps me avoid spending big money on new components!
My Conrad Johnson 17LS-2 is a new toy for me so I have just started tube rolling with it. I replaced the stock Electro Harmonix 6922's with some Phillips PCC88's from the 70's. A stunning improvement to my ear because they sound sweeter with better highs, clarity, sparkle, and bass.
Rob, can you share how the Goldpoint passive sounds to you and how it compares to other preamps you have heard? As much as I am enjoying my newly acquired CJ, I an wondering what the next step might be as changing the preamp can really adjust your whole listening experience.
Thanks for listening,
Dsper |
jafant,
I have also been advised that Synergistic Research cables can tame that last bit of edge you can get with metal dome tweeters like on the CS5's.
The prices on interconnects just scares me off.
Thanks for listening!
Dsper |
hi fitter468,
I have both 3.6's and CS5's.
Both are very good.
To my ear, the CS5's are much better in the treble and high mids.
FWIW
Thanks for listening,
Dsper |
