Tube Preamps under $10k with deep bass extension

CAT Ultimate will certainly go down to 20hz, but so will
the Audible Illusions Modulus III. Modulus III has better bass than the IIIa. I have the CAT and would certainly take it over the Audible Illusions, but the AI ain't bad. If you are primarily concerned with the bass however, you could take the AI and save a lot of money. You are right about the Hovland. I would say that it is missing the whole first octave, not just a part of it.

I will be getting a First Sound Presence Audio Deluxe Mk II 4.0 with dual power supplies next week. I believe that this unit is the same as the First Sound Paramount minus the volume control upgrade to Vishay resistors, some few internal wiring and component changes, gold front panel and gold knobs, so it should represent some of the best sound coming from this line. According to people in the know, even the ordinary Presence Audio Deluxe Mk II is stunning in its ability to provide dynamics and bass. I would expect from the overbuilt nature of the power supplies coming with the Deluxe 4.0 Mk II, that the bass and dynamics would be taken to another level. Since I intend to keep my CAT, I can finally provide a comparison between these two sometime late next week if anyone is interested.

I find the AI III to be underrated, even though it is considered to be an overachiever for its price. Of course, tube matching is important as well as overall system synergy, but I find that in several systems where I have heard it, it didn't suffer to a very significant degree to some highly regarded and some very expensive preamps. Dynamics and bass were outstanding. Neutrality was excellent. I find the AI to be neither bright nor dull. It lacked a little of the sweetness and air around instruments, but you could do a lot worse and spend a lot more money, even $10K. I am happy to spend as little as possible, where possible, for equipment and keep the difference in my pocket instead of someone else's. I never judge equipment by what it costs. Generally, I have not found cost to correlate all that well with the sound quality.

Drubin,

Didn't know about the Siemens 7308's. I do have an NOS pair of Siemens E88CC's lying around which didn't do much for the CAT. I like Telefunken E88CC's in the CAT, by the way. I do have a pair of NOS Tele 7308's, which I will try in the First Sound. They are a no no in the CAT. I have been searching the web and did run across several people saying the Shunyata Taipan works well with the F.S. Anyone got any to lend? I need two. I am broke! Really!

Marakanetz:

Sorry for being a heretic but build quality, while nice to have in those $10K products, is overrated, IMO. If it is cheap, sounds good and therefore doesn't need upgrading, and lasts, what's the problem? (:->). (Gotta work on my smiley faces!)

Don't get me wrong. I like the fit and finish of those expensive products and am not immune to it. I own a few that some might consider "overbuilt" but build quality, I find, is a term which is used a lot but is very hard to define. Sometimes it refers to weight, sometimes electronic parts, fancy wiring, shiny faceplates, fit and finish of cases and cabinetry, etc. The premium in the price for what we perceive as build quality is just enormous. Since we are all here for the sound rather than indefinable things or things which are not proven to correlate with good sound, I try to give those things a low priority. It is just my philosophy. I don't mean to disparage anyone else's.

Even with that said, I don't consider the AI to be a crappy product with regard to build quality. I am not saying that it is the absolutely best-sounding pre out there, but it ain't bad, and for the money, it is a steal. If you put it next to something that you think is way better, compare the two and tell me what is missing. My answer would be not much. That is all that I am saying.

Cheers,

I cannot imagine a CAT Ultimate which sounds bright. Only terms such as smooth and musical come to mind when describing this unit. In my opinion, it has the absolutely most liquid midrange of any preamp which I have ever heard. If anything, I find it slightly warm rather than bright. As I also own the First Sound Presence Deluxe 4.0, I find that to be a high quality linestage, but certainly not better than the CAT. I will admit that the CAT is quite heavy in the bass and the First Sound doesn't have that. The First Sound throws a very wide soundstage, slightly wider than the CAT's, but the CAT has a deeper one. The First Sound is actually brighter than the CAT, for which I do not fault it. I do fault it that a hard struck high register piano note sounds a little brittle. This never happens on my CAT. As I have had the First Sound for only a month or two, and haven't yet done the experimentation with tube rolling and changes in interconnects although I am currently using NOS Telefunken 7308's in it, I am willing to admit that I haven't yet extracted the best from the First Sound, but I don't understand Kalan's complaints about the CAT apart from gain, line output and sensitivity issues. Although tube rolling with the CAT can make a significant difference, I have never heard it sound bright, even with the stock tubes or with NOS tubes for which it is not well suited, such as Mullard 6922's. If so, perhaps a tube change or perhaps an interconnect change is required.

Kalan,

Your post is interesting since I was a Plinius SA-100 owner prior to owning the Pass. I had both amps (Pass and Plinius) for about 3-4 months. I LOVED the CAT/Plinius combo and it was a tough decision to sell the Plinius. In my opinion, those two had a terrific synergy. The only reason that I decided to keep the Pass rather than the Plinius even though the synergy wasn't as great was that I felt that the Pass was a better amp overall: greater bass extension and high frequency extension, better detail, more neutral. Plinius had a lot more slam in the bass and was a little brighter with the CAT than the Pass, but I wouldn't call it an "in your face" combo. At that time, I was using 90 db sensitivity Snell C/V loudspeakers as opposed to the 86 db sensitivity Vandersteen 3A Signatures which I use now. With the Snell's and the Plinius, use of the volume control on the CAT was frustrating due to the CAT's gain and, I guess, the Plinius high sensitivity, but when you set the volume correctly, you got a quite reasonably balanced system frequency-wise. In my opinion, the system wasn't forward or "in your face". It was more forward, however, than my current system, just not overly so.

Here are the vital stats on the Pass:
Pass Aleph 4

Gain: 26 db
(unbalanced)

Sensitivity: no rating

Input impedance: 10,000 ohms
(unbalanced)

I don't doubt what you hear, Kalan. It is surprising that such a sensitivity mismatch would affect one set of frequencies as opposed to others, since I interpret "in your face" to mean an overemphasized midrange.