Two Type of sound and listener preference are there more?


In our thirty years of professional audio system design and setup, we keep on running into two distinctly different types of sound and listeners.

Type One: Detail, clarity, soundstage, the high resolution/accuracy camp. People who fall into this camp are trying to reproduce the absolute sound and use live music as their guide.

Type Two: Musicality camp, who favors tone and listenability over the high resolution camp. Dynamics, spl capabilty, soundstaging are less important. The ability for a system to sound real is less important than the overall sound reproduced "sounds good."

Are there more then this as two distincly different camps?

We favor the real is good and not real is not good philosophy.

Some people who talk about Musicaility complain when a sytem sounds bright with bright music.

In our viewpoint if for example you go to a Wedding with a Live band full of brass instruments like horns, trumpts etc it hurts your ears, shouldn’t you want your system to sound like a mirror of what is really there? Isn’t the idea to bring you back to the recording itself?

Please discuss, you can cite examples of products or systems but keep to the topic of sound and nothing else.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
128x128audiotroy

Showing 10 responses by kijanki

seanheis1, you assume that people who like exact (analytical) sound don't seek emotions.  Read below, especially response 2:

OP:
I don't pretend to be a professional reviewer (in fact this is the first time I've been moved to review any equipment), so can't explain exactly the differences, but it was akin to listening to a live acoustic performance versus listening to music through loudspeakers. The difference was not slight - it was dramatic. There is no "tingle factor" and no goose-bumps when listening with the Benchmark. If anyone says that the Benchmark is more accurate - frankly I don't care - I listen to music with my ears, not an oscilloscope! It was dull and lifeless by comparison. If you listen to live music there's inevitably background noise (you're sharing the auditorium with other people) and the acoustics are possibly not as good as a recording studio, but despite all the drawbacks, live music is so much more exciting to listen to. Similarly with the valve amps, an evening listening to music is thoroughly enjoyable. With the Benchmark it was little better than loud background music. Furthermore, the inclination was to turn down the volume of the Benchmark and turn up the SETs - inaccuracies, slight background noise and all! Music should be a thrilling experience and the Benchmark sadly doesn't offer thrills.

Response1 (John Siau):
Peter,

This is John Siau, VP of Benchmark.

Thanks for taking the time to document your experience with the Benchmark AHB2.

The AHB2 is well suited to use with high-efficiency speakers. The low noise allows noise-free operation with very high efficiency speakers.

Of equal importance, the AHB2 virtually eliminates the zero-crossing distortion that is normally produced conventional Class AB push-pull output stages. This is especially important for high efficiency speakers because the amplifier will spend so much time in low power region where crossover distortion can become most audible. The AHB2 behaves like a Class-A amplifier in that it is free from this very objectionable form of distortion.

But the AHB2 isn't for everyone. If you prefer an amplifier that enhances your listening experience then the AHB2 is not for you.

Your SET amplifier is specifically intended to add the euphonic qualities produced by the single-ended tube topology. This specific character is produced by the unique non-linearities that are characteristic of single-ended tube topology. The SET topology provides significant coloring of the music in a way that many people enjoy. If this is what you prefer, then you will be very unhappy with most other power amplifiers.

The AHB2 and SET amplifiers are on the very opposite end of the spectrum. You are completely correct when you say that the difference is dramatic.

The AHB2 is a much different listening experience. In contrast to an SET amplifier, the AHB2 is designed to be virtually distortion-free. The output of the AHB2 will sound exactly like the input. The AHB2 will not enhance or improve what goes in.

Please understand that this is a mater of taste. Many people enjoy the coloration produced by SET amplifiers.

Amplifiers can fall into three categories:

1) Amplifiers that add nothing to the audio
2) Amplifiers that add musically-disturbing distortion
3) Amplifiers that add musically pleasing coloration

The AHB2 falls into category 1, your SET amplifier falls into category 3.

Technically "coloration" is distortion but I think the word "distortion" gives a completely misleading description of something that may actually enhance the sound.

Again, it comes down to a matter of preference.
Response 2:
My experience with the Benchmark AHB2 driving sensitive speakers is somewhat different. In my current setup with Benchmark DAC2 HGC/AHB2, I am driving a pair of Klipschorns with a 105 dB sensitivity so in that sense they would be comparable to the Avantgarde speakers.

In my 25 years of of experience with mostly tube amplifiers of all sorts, I have never come across a more emotionally involving amplifier than the AHB2. It is exactly because it doesn't "interpret" the music by adding coloration or any artificial sense of ambience or reverberation that it is so fascinating to listen to. The AHB2's ability to reproduce the timbre and texture of acoustic instruments is beyond anything I have experienced before - just listen to brass or woodwind! - and the precision with which it reveals the actual acoustic properties of the recording venue, whether it be a small café or a concert hall, is second to none. At least to my ears. I think what captured my attention from the very first instant was how honest and genuine the sound is. If it is in the recording, it is there, otherwise not.

This amplifier keeps me on the edge of my seat in excitement and anticipation even with recordings that I have known for years and not thought very highly of, so in my view it is the very antithesis of boring. I don't remember having ever been so moved by reproduced music as with this Benchmark combo. FYI, I almost exclusively listen to classical music and much of it in hi-rez, but I have to say that well-recorded CDs are also much more enjoyable and listenable now than before.

Some folks love the Benchmark gear and some folks like it at first, but then ultimately find it fatiguing. I find Benchmark amps and DACs to be colored towards the detailed/analytical side...harmonics seem missing to me.
Here is part of the review on avmentor.net:

The overall impression is that the system is able to pass into the listening room both the harmonic richness and the tonal balance of the recording. The Benchmark pair offered near-flawless attack/release times and sounded full and impressively present even in small details, a behavior that reinforces the sense of precision and carries the listener a step closer to the live performance.

Senheis1,  I've never heard Vidar amp, but I bet you never heard AHB2 otherwise you wouldn't post this opinion.  Stating that AHB2 lacks microdynamics, texture, layering or has poor soundstage sounds like a joke.  Please notice that all professional reviews of AHB2 claim exactly the opposite, and there were dozens. 

Since you only posted negative user opinions, that you can always find for any amp, I suspect that you just like colored sound, but I don't understand why you feel defensive about it.  There is nothing wrong with it - it is only a matter of taste. 

You also called AHB2 sound "colored to the analytical/detailed side" and it shows that you have some agenda.  There is no such coloring, but there is a coloring on a side of warm sounding "musical" amps that can be easily shown in the presence of even harmonics they produce. 
Dave, It gets worse.  According to John Siau, technical director of Benchmark Media, overly warm sounding gear can make instruments with complex harmonic structure, like piano, to sound like out of tune.

Many people find natural sounding amps fatiguing, driving speaker with harsh metal dome tweeter.  They seek warm/dull sounding amp to fix it.

Believe it or not, somebody asked on this forum how to make sound warmer with less detail.  I recommended thick blanket over speakers.

Another person stated that the sound of the Benchmark DAC is too detailed - meaning each instruments can be identified.  He preferred all instrument together like sound blob.  We like what we got used to.  
If you strip away the natural harmonics of music, you get a lean and very detailed sound
I offer you a third option - harmonic richness and tons of detail, and that's my Benchmark DAC3 + AHB2.

Negative feedback cannot strip harmonics and this can be easily measured. If anything, negative feedback widens bandwidth and lowers distortion. Improperly used can lead to Transient Intermodulation distortions (TIM), that add brightness to the sound (higher order odd harmonics).

On the other hand more distortions without feedback can make amp sound more vivid, pretty much the same way as distorted guitar (a lot of harmonics) sounds more dynamic than clean Jazz guitar at the same loudness. Sound that is "warmer" than neutral has even harmonics added by an amp. Adding even harmonics might sound nice but reduces clarity.
rnabokov, sure, avoid it, if the harsh metal dome tweeter makes your ears bleed, but we are not talking about overly bright sound at all.  Benchmark is not bright at all, but it will allow you to to hear in the background, instruments that were just the "sounds" before.  
The question is why the gear that is praised by the studio people as closest sounding to life performance, like Benchmark, is called analytical or sterile.  I think that we learned to listen to particular sound that carry certain amount of distortion, noise and coloration while sound closest to life performance is not to our liking.  We like it there, at the venue, but we expect something different at home.  I've read audiogoner's complaint that gear is too resolving and that instruments should not be separated but sounding "together" like a sound blob.  Sure, sound with some distortion and noise can sound more, as you call it, "musical", but shouldn't we learn to listen?  It took me a while to get used to how clean the Benchmark is, but now I think it is very emotionally involving.
From the technical stand point an amplifier cannot strip harmonics, unless its bandwidth is very limited. It might not add additional harmonics, that make sound warm or dynamic. Warm, cold or
 natural - there is no right or wrong either way.
+1 royj.  With new Benchmark DAC3 + AHB2 combo, in the background I hear instruments that used to be just "sounds".  Imaging is wonderful and dynamics/slam is beyond believe.  People assume that highly resolving gear is less dynamic - completely false.