Vpi vs. TW Acustic

In deciding if a response is worthy or not, enough has been said that my input is needed.

No denying a top suspension is needed. This is correct. Also, I find little will compare to a turntable that has a separate suspension from the table. This is where turntables such as VPI & others can fall short. They are limited in their design to the suspension they can deploy. While an unsuspended deck can be designed with less compromise provided that an external suspension system is in use. Many people do use Vibrplanes, MInus K platforms or the like. There are even those who have suspended turntables that are placed on additional suspension knowing about the limitations of suspension design in the eixisting deck.

Unfortunately some posters here did not get off on a great foot w. certain dealers, or did not receive the discount they wanted towards a purchase and will bad talk a product in light of the fact that they didn't want to pay to own it. You know who you are. I don't find your tactics fair to the other members of this forum.

If the response is an insinuation towards my post,I might add that assuming something is meaningless in your case.If I am not the target,then I apologize whole heartedly!

If I am the subject of your response......you know "not" what you speak of...for sure!!

Discounting or bad experiences has "nothing" to do with a vastly overpriced product(not a bad product,btw,just easily bettered for less cash) in comparison to better,lower cost designs.Made "here",and for alot less dosh.

Take the VPI TNT for example...one half the cost and a far more advanced design.Usualy that equates to more detail from a disc.I assume that is what we are striving for.

Interesting thread. I'm not sure how much of it I find to agree with, but it is interesting in ways. Most of all, I find the opinions of the posters to be the most interesting part, not from a technical point of view, but a psychological one. Bantered back and forth are comparisons, even blanket ones, between various makes without any consideration based in true fact. Oh, well. I would like to see some concrete explanations of these premises presented, and I am pretty sure the original poster was hoping for some, too. Owning some brand of turntable doesn't make anyone a pro about sonic presentation of all turntables, suspensions, or anything else.

I suppose I'm a direct competitor of TW Acustic, but I don't believe it is fair for guys to summarily trash their turntable without something other than supposition and insinuation. So far, that's what we have seen, however. To name brands that are better without anything to back up the claims doesn't seem too credible to me.

My suggestion to the OP is that he seek out the turntable, and hear it for himself. Only then can he make an educated decision.

Win

Sirspeedy et al, I do see SS's point. There IS a lot of unsubstantiated hype in today's market place, but there are also some great products. Like Mosin, I would feel more convinced of Sirspeedy's specific contention regarding the Raven (which one, for example?) vs VPI and Sota, if he were to cite his specific reasons. However, it is also true that once one has spent big bucks, it is darn near impossible to have a truly objective opinion about the item one has paid so much money for, unless it has been a total disaster. So this is definitely not a knock on Sirspeedy.

Sirspeedy,

If you find the Raven overpriced, then I wonder how you find some other designs priced well above? You have me quite surprised. Then how is a tiny cartridge priced more than many a turntable for what is essential almost no material cost. I just don't get it. Do you honestly believe that a $1000 cartridge is that different in cost of production from a $8000 cartridge. You might as well condemn the whole audio industry. Which is how you described to me your sentiments earlier. And not in relation to a TW table but to your experience with other products. Are your listening biases the only ones to be accepted? I have listened with you in a few rooms years ago, and I would easily state that our biases diverge.

On to the VPI. Many an original owner of a VPI turntable, or SME, and quite a few others have gone away from suspended decks. I assume they all had to convince themselves they achieved better performance and couldn't hear any improvement since obviously the design of a suspended deck is far superior in your book. Note: how I am not mentioning just TW. The arguement here is more of a suspended vs. unsuspended. There are several adherents to both camps.

I might add, VPI and others have greatly improved the design of thier turntables since some of the newer decks have displaced them on the market. Many of the design improvements are for the better. I wonder why it took so long. Maybe competition in this case benefits the consumer. But the VPI isn't inexpensive or even less expensive. As a value at the lower end it is a great table. But the high end turntables are costly. The new platters have definitely improved the sound of recent. Based on discussions with owners of VPI tables, not all models are equal. I won't go into the specifics as I have no personal experience.

Finally, I have a friend w. a very high end turntable that borrowed my Raven motor. A motor that has been measured to be accurate to one of the highest rates possible. This measured by an independant reviewer and not at the motor but instead at the platter. If I recall correctly something like 0.03%. That is direct drive teritory. Also measured noise was incredibly low.

All I can say is my friends amazement of how such a motor improved the sound of what is already a very well engineered turntable that was rated class A in stereophile for many years. He immediately noticed the increase in speed accuracy from the reduction of noise and the improvement in tracking the inner tracks on an LP. Much of this performance can be had on the lowly Raven One.

You are being too black and white in your statements earlier and my response is in accordance. When you live with a turntable and have owned others then please have such a firm valuation of a specific brand. Mine are based on experience and for sure some personal bias. But... my friends w. lesser decks were not told that mine is better. I did mention the ease of changing, adjusting and running multiple tonearms. The speed stability and the ease of use or all excellent. And last is the bearing design is unique among turntables.

As far as a record clampling system, how does the TW prevent the use of a record clamp. I own a Harmonix Clamp and a few outer rings. I just hate outer rings as they are a pain to use. I almost never use the outer ring (which I love) for that reason. Especially if you want to use a 9 inch tonearm or a triplanar.