2-19-10: Dan_ed
My 4 chassis Doshi Alaap is not going anywhere!
My (more common) 2 chassis Doshi Alaap is also here to stay!
No posts from Dan in some time, I hope he's well.
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The Graham Slee is super and so is the Tron. Have heard them both. Used to be a dealer for Graham Slee....what a value.....great suggestions. |
zyx phono stage. A great match for the UNIverse cartridge |
TRON Seven Reference built specially for my Decca C4E. Just brilliant! HereÂ’s my review of it.
http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?92665-Seven-Heaven-TRON-style |
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I recently moved on from an Aesthetix Rhea to an ARC Phono REF 2SE. The Rhea did have major tube rush which is a common problem but the REF 2 is dead quiet and much more dynamic and detailed. Definitely a big step up, and worth the price. |
I have added the Allnic H5000 DHT phono stage to keep company with my Pass XP-25. I am still waiting for delivery (2 weeks away). |
I now have a Herron VTPH-1 MC Special. I'm not necessarily finished but I'm not sure how much I can improve realistically.... so finished for now! |
I have added a Pass XP-25 to my TW Acustik phono stage. This now gives me great flexibility depending on cartridge and mood. I have no great desire to listen to anything else.
Best of both worlds with ss and tube.
Cheers |
Krell KPE reference -> Ear 834P -> Aesthetix Rhea -> Manlely Chinook -> Manley Steelhead, where I think I'll "stop and smell the roses" for awhile.
Along the way I also have Liberty B2B (which is a fantastic solid state phono stage!) and a Bellari 130 for fun with MM carts. |
After going throguh a bunch including a project tube box and a Wright 200WPC, Bottlehead Seduction I went with a Hagerman Cornet II. amazing |
Graham Slee Reflex M phono preamp with Graham Slee Elevator, VPI Super Scoutmaster Reference rimdrive, 10.5i tonearm, Lyra Titan-i cartridge, Classic platter. Extremely happy with this combo. |
Am pretty happy with my Pro-ject Tube Box SE II, but then I haven't tried many others. |
Audio Icon PS3.
An excellent tubed phono pre.
Doesn't seem to get much attention outside of the UK for some reason. |
I've settled on ARC phono stage built into my sp16 pre-amp.
It's pretty solid top to bottom. Also reasonably quiet for a tube phono device, as long as you use a very low noise tube in tube slot 1 of 3 in the phono section. Anything less than a top performing tube there can result in significant noise levels. I listen mostly to digital, so I have very low tolerance for any background noise that I can hear, even with ears close up to tweets when nothing playing. |
Interesting how few Audio Research entries on this string. I purchased a RHEA signature demo, and initially wanted to return it due to noise. After replacing the tube set from Jim Mcshane, tube noise is noticeable only within a few inches from my electrostatic speakers and totally inaudible at listening position. . The AR Phono 2 SE is silent. I'm wondering if it is 6000 dollars better? |
Most recent upgrade is the ARC Ref Phono 2SE. |
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After many years I have finished with an ARC Phono 6 , I like the way you can change the loading from the remote control and at my age ( 58 ) I can't justify spending more as my hearing ain't what it used to be .
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I used a Steelhead for a long while, and agree with Lacee that it sounds better from the fixed outputs. Am presently using the Allnic H3000 with very musical results. For years, during the late 80's and into the 90's, I hung on to my ARC SP-10 mkii, which had a very sweet phono section. But it couldn't really accommodate low output moving coil cartridges well and once I changed to a horn-based speaker system (from Crosby Quads), the noise floor forced me to move to a more modern preamp.
While separate line and phono stages gives you more flexibility, you do have to factor in the cost of that additional piece of interconnect, which can, when taken into account, give you a greater budget for complete preamp that includes a phono stage. |
Going back over the last 5 years, I went from a NAD 3020 to a Cullen Modified GCPH to a KRELL KPE to a Jasmine 2.0 MKII and just recently to a Liberty B2B. Each move was a significant upgrade. I only use the MM section and use a step up transfomer. FULL DISCLOSURE - I manufacture step up transformes. |
I have no plans to replace a Viva Fono phonostage. |
Manitunc, I hear you. I guess I would have to hear it to be swayed to step up to the plate. I can buy a lot of records for that upgrade! |
Hagerman Trumpet.
Nice to see he is making them again, plus the new reference. |
Noro,
I thought the same thing, when I went from a PS Audio GCPH to a Simaudio LP5.3 with PS5.3 external power supply. retail was about $3000 and I got used for about $1250. but, when I got the opportunity to pick up my Manley Steelhead for a steal, and with its 3 phono and one line input and a multitude of gain and loading options, I had to try it out. And I am more than glad I did. The Simaudio was excellent, but the Steelhead is just another level entirely, and since I run multiple tables and arms, it really has the functions I need. I couldnt afford it either at its retail price, but keep looking long enough and deals do come up. You just have to snatch them when you can. |
I can neither afford nor am I willing to spend more that $1000 on a phono amp. I had an early Croft Micro that I upgraded myself, doubling up the psu, upgrading the resitors and swapping out the stock tubes for Telefunkens and the output driver to a CV5042. It was really good. I currently have a newer Micro 25. I've rolled in GE JG 5751 in the phono section and a Telefunken driver. I don't think my front end 401/Decca Super Gold deserves spending anymore on the preamp. So this is going to stay! |
Manley Steelhead. My last. |
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Br3069
It's considered good etiquette on this forum to declare yourself as a dealer for the product that you are schilling.
How in the world did you discover that I am a dealer? Was it my user name? |
After hearing the Zesto Andros PS 1 I would totally endorse that phono stage...totally. It's considered good etiquette on this forum to declare yourself as a dealer for the product that you are schilling. |
Vintage SOTA The Head will handle any MC you can throw at it. You may also be interested in the other pre-preamp offerings from John Curl. |
After hearing the Zesto Andros PS 1 I would totally endorse that phono stage...totally. |
Musical Fidelity kW Phono-very flexible, built like a tank, quite, clean and open sound-what's not to like- |
The Linn Uphorik MM/MC external phono stage is absolutely amazing and provides lots of adjustments. |
Hagerman Trumpet
I have one of the later iterations of the Trumpet. It has aluminum front and back panels. I took delivery of it in January of this year. Very happy. This one should last me the rest of the way.
I had used a Wright WPP100C. Eleven years with that one. I would classify the Wright as exceptional for the money. Very good, but not great. The Trumpet betters the Wright in every way I can think of.
I'd spent some quality time with a Tom Evans Microgroove-Plus. It was probably better than the Wright in terms of speed and immediacy. But there was a slight solid-state aftertaste which I could readily perceive. Odd. On the one hand, a seemingly transparent delivery which nonetheless left its notes in a very slightly white translucency. Or the mental impression of that. Probably, it was system dependent. The Wright, on the other hand, offered a tubey warmth that seemed closer to right within the context of the system and budget at the time. Oh, and the TE was a bit higher priced.
But the Hagerman Trumpet has the speed, immediacy, dynamics, transparency, details micro and macro in stark clarity. This is closer to it. And then it fit my modest budget.
-Steve |
I have owned a few, upgraded from the Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena to the Icon Audio PS3 MM MC tubed pre.
Loving it too. |
The Zesto Andros PS1. Since I have a fully upgraded Linn LP12, I considered the Linn Uphorik and Eureka. After hearing the Linn phono stages, I'm very pleased with the PS1. It does everything I want from a phono stage. Precise imaging, deep and wide soundstage, lots of detail and always musical. It is my end game phono stage. |
Lacee, Yes if the noise floor of your TT is higher than your phono stage then it may be a waste of money. But if you want to hear the differences that upgrading your TT make then having a quiet phono stage will tell you if you are going in the right direction. |
I would agree, the 1% of vinyl users with good tables need a good phono stage.
I don't think a top flight phono stage will turn a medium grade table into a Continuum.
But a Continuum can be humbled with a medium level phono stage. |
Have your EAR fitted with better parts. The ones which are there total maybe at $20 wholesale including power transformer.My deepest respect to design talent of TdP. It's a unique sounding unit and I repeat someones else opinion that I happen to share (partially ) that "99% of vinyl users don't need a better phonostage" Take it as you wish & good luck with your quest :). |
Forgot to add this.
I've found that the volume control is a weak link in most pre-amps or phono stages with pre amp capabilities.
I use the Steelhead in two systems,running it in fixed output mode, which is minus the volume control.
The headphone system runs the Manley into a Burson HD 160 and differences in inter-connects are quite easily heard.
In the second system the Steelhead is run from the fixed outputs into a Lightspeed Attenuator,with better sound than ruuning from the Steelheads variable outputs(with volume control) directly into my amps.
The Steelhead is similar in concept to the Atmasphere except it's a single ended design, and hence prone to the vagaries of interconnect sonic traits.
Both the Atmasphere and the Steelhead have a volume control however and so are sonically at it's mercy.
It's not possible(except with degrading rca/xlr adaptors)to run an Atmasphere into a Lightspeed, unfortunately we won't know how much of an improvement that would make.
It did improve the Steelhead.
The other thing that I like about the steelhead is the large separate power supply,which Ralph would agree moves the MP1 further up the ladder than the MP3 that I used to own.
Had I not made other moves, I would still be enjoying the MP3 as much as my friend enjoys his after he heard mine.
He hasn't had a problem with his in ten years of ownership. He also drives his speakers( Acousta X, same as mine) directly with his MP3 , except that his amps(Acoustat servo amps) are not balanced.He replaced the RCA on the amp with XLR but it's quasi balanced,still single ended.
As much as a fully balanced pre-phono stage negates the need for pricey IC's there is still that pesky volume control to contend with, which I have realized is the achille's heel of most audio components. |
Manley Steelhead running a Clearaudio Talisman V2 MC into the Steelhead MM input.
Settings - 47K, 55db gain, all Capacitance settings at 0. |
Manley Steelhead. 3 phono inputs plus line input, lots of loading and gain options and sounds great. |
Allnic H3000. Sounds great in my system. It's a keeper. |
Aesthetix Io Eclipse is not about to depart my home. |
Yep, it's all good. I believe I understand what Atmasphere was going for. However, I think for those in this upper end of the market the cost of an additional IC isn't that big of a deal. If a particular integrated sounds better than a particular set of separates, or if the separates sound better, is only an evaluation of those pieces. Extrapolating those results into some blanket statement about which approach is superior is great marketing.
T_bone, Nick has already done an excellent 2 chassis, full-function preamp with built-in phono stage. The 4 chassis model that I commissioned was exactly as you say, more expensive, however it does surpass the 2 chassis model in performance. (I even skipped the remote, to give an idea of what I am after.) The four chassis model is the separation of the pre and phono circuits and a separate power supply for each, 2 circuit chassis and two power supply chassis. There are always trade-offs and implementation is everything. The extra IC is not a problem at all from where I sit (pun intended). IMO, YMMV, and all that.
disclaimer: I don't represent Doshi Audio, I'm just a very happy camper. |
If I understand the comments by Rauliruegas, and repeated by Notec and Atmasphere, the theory is that a phono stage that is integrated into the preamplifier is better than one that is separate because the interconnection forms a kind of "weak link". This statement sound generally incorrect. Keep in mind that the signal output from the phono stage should be about as strong as the signal output from a CD player or tuner. I mean, the point of the phono stage is to take a signal that is too weak to be input to the preamplifier (i.e. the signal from the cartridge) and amplify it to a level that is suitable for the preamplifier (there is, of course also the task of RIAA equalization as well). If the signal from the phono stage is weaker, then you probably have a problem of too low a gain level in the phono stage.
An advantage in having the phono stage separate from the preamplifier is that the phono stage is typically the highest gain component in your system, and it receives signals that are significantly weaker than those elsewhere in the system. Those weak signals are prone to interference from nearby stronger signals, so by keeping those signals in a separate box, you can amplify the weak signal while minimizing interference and then once the signal has been amplified, it can then be introduced into the rest of the system. |
What you're describing are not connectivity issues. Those are cable quality issues and personal preferences. Nothing more. New models of components are introduced every year. Does that mean people's "old" systems are no longer any good and must be replaced? Does that mean that cables between amps and preamps are replaced every year just because there are improvements there? No to both.
But that's not what you REALLY said originally. What you said was (read very carefully!):
"You see, one of the functions of a line stage is to control the interconnect cable. I don't see any phono stage that is really designed to do that, so the interconnect between the phono section and whatever follows (line stage, power amp) is critical. [snip undisputed passive volume control and function statement]."
So you can see that what you said is a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT than when you changed your explanation to something else completely. What you said had to do with the quality of a phono stage being able to "control the interconnect cable" as if there are not differences between interconnects between other components, downstream of the preamp, or between a "properly designed" phono stage and a preamp. But there are, as well as there are differences between the wire that can be used inside an integrated preamp. Does that mean that the preamp needs to be rewired every time there is an improvement in point-to-point wire?
But the issue remain that you said that you know of no phono stage that has the same attention to its output than the output of a preamp. You also implied that since a preamp is designed to "control the interconnect" that there are no differences in downstream interconnects but there are between phono stages and line stage preamps.
I mean, that is what you said. Right? That's where I disagree with you. |
T_bone, you got it. Thanks. |
Keep in mind that all of that proselytizing (mine) comes from someone who just bought a standalone MM stage where I will need a headamp/SUT and a preamp to make it work. |
