noble/Tim
FYI: I had 2 EP 100.2SEs (with upgraded fuses) for well over a year. I got the bug and bought a Audio Alchemy DPA-1 stereo amp. It is much richer in the midrange and bass, deeper and more holographic sound stage= much closer to real music |
sixsigma
PS makes 2 amp versions 300 & 700.
The 300 likely uses a different module than the 700, which I am told sounds MUCH better
chances are you have the 300s |
slimpikins
I haave owned 6+ class Ds oer the last decade, and owned a Parasound A23. I MHO the Audio Alchemy class D comes closest in warmth but is much more open |
why would anyone turn off their amps after listening, especially class D amps |
select,
I live in USA and still have come bery close to buying Colins amps, though not able to make up my mind between the N series II or his ice amp, which he only sells as a stereo amp
Doing a ton of research, PS Audios M700s monos (using ice modules) have gotten fantastic reviews. As far as I can tell, unlike Colin’s, they have an input buffer stage, which not only should make them more flexible impedance matches,they are said to improve on the ice sound
Of course that’s speculative unless both are listened to side by side
M700s MSRP is $2995 the pair! |
Thanks for the insight MG,
Nord was offering an upgrade billet chassis (I think for the NCore only), but it’s no longer posted as an option
I read another review citing power cord sensitivity. I changed one out and did get a substantial overall more organic presentation.
Based on that, last night I swapped out a Surfer Cable XLR (silver; a very good value @ $150), but when I replaced it with a PS Audio copper XLR (not sure which model, but I own it) it took about an hour to saturate, before the music refocused. Tonal tilt now favors of the midrange/base, and a lot more fuzz on the peach. It’s the kind of improvement I would expect if I can ever find a Audio Alchemy PS 5, outboard power supply for my AA Dac/Pre |
noble/Tim, et al
UPDATE: I replaced the old (~ 10 years) mid line PS Audio XLR with WireWorld newest Series 8 Silver XLR ($425) WOW. after a couple hours I was hearing a grungy distortion, so I decided to replace the PC I was using with my WW Eclipse Series 7 PC (the one that I replaced prior to inserting the PS XLR) OMG. This is the most natural my system has sounded in many years. Oh, and subs are turned off but the Emerald Physics KCIIs have really good bass to ~ 40, which is ample for most music. Where I was using the F4 digital filter on my Audio Alchemy Dac/Pre I am now on F1, which is the least filtered
Paraphrasing your reply, Class D is ruthless on ancillary kit and cables. They should be upgraded before bashing class D |
As always ’compared to what", Well, I was in the biz in the late 1990s-- early 2000s. Dedicated 20 amp line, and was testing various PLCs.. Back then the PS Audio P300 on the front end was awesome.
At one point I had Rogue M150 monos with full sets of cryoed 6550s and EL 34s (+ cryoed NOS driver tubes), a Lector pre (custom ordered with XLR output) and several tube CD players. everything was on Stillpoints with Risers and custom Harmonic boards (made from violin wood): I was/am an isolation nut. IMHO, nothing is as good as inexpensive Machina Dynamica Springs, which isolate in all 3 dimensions). Various speakers, but at one point I had Harry Pearsons Genesis Vs, and later a prototype pair of 7ft Nearfield Pipedreams with a 10K MSRP (we were dealers), followed by Usher 6371s> KCIIs. You get the picture
I started getting into class D with PS Audios various iterations; I still have a GCC 250 (modified as new by Underwood HiFi driving my video system. In the main rig I had W4S stereo amp> W4s MC 250/500> Emerald Physics 100.2SE with custom fuses) and currently Audio Alchemy DPA- 1 (stereo amp) and matching AA DDP-1 (dac/pre). CD is a Marantz HD CD 1 used as a transport via HQ coax, and an Oppo 105 with Linear Power Supply and incoming IEC wire upgrade for high rez discs, which I haven’t yet listened to in months. Speakers are Emerald Physics KCIIs (Clarity cap and WireWorld internal XO wire upgrades) which replaced Magnepan 3.5Rs and 2 SVS (Ultra subs, both turned off after the cable changes
So, when I say I haven’t had this level sound quality in decades, that says a lot, to me at least. .
Only budget limits me at this time from Nuprime Evos, GaN... |
Tim, The Audio Alchemy class D are far superior to the EPs. The Absolute Soud reviewed them back in March of 2016. I found it after having bought the AA stereo amp and dac/pre. These days the come u for sale at < 50% off, probably ONLY because they are no longer being made |
Well, just because they both use UcD does not mean they sound the same. I found the EP monos thin in the mids, which exaggerated the highs. They were used with my KCIIs as is the AA amp
anyway, Im getting PS Audio 700Ms and the gaincell dac/pre at a great price, so that should be a fun comparison. The PS only has about 300 hours so needs a couple weeks breakin before I can compare |
My apologies, I missed that.part |
Im excited about the PS kit. The amps are ICE POWER tech. The input is proprietary, but the Gaincell is a volume module based on a B & O design. There are a number of in depth reviews on the net. I asked Paul McGowan if they are dabbling with GaN. I don’t think he knows what the digital department is up to in R & D though. I also asked him abut an external PS for the preamp, as he often does that, but he said that it wasn't needed. Hmmmm.Time will tell
What I am most excited about is I finally scored an AA power supply for the dac/pre, and it's a beast. They are hard to come by as production has stopped on the AA kit. I will have it Friday. No sure whether the PS kit will get here then too |
Thanks Tim. Yeah, his review motivated me. Took a couple months to find a silver set at a price I could flip without much out of pocket, but it sounds like they might stay, so...
I know I repeat myself but the AA sounds fantastic, especially since making the 2 cable changes
And yes they will be on separate shelves |
no sonic fluke, interactions between the 2 modules
can you get a long board that extends beyond the rack so you can set them side by side? |
Steve, always good to hear positive feedback from an actual owner |
stevecham
I have owned those and stack versions for ~ 10 years. NO comparison to the Machina Dynamica Springs |
2 great class d deals
*Audio Alchemy (I have their stereo amp and dac/pre) excellent value, especially used. No longer in production
*Nord He is now selling the ICeEdge module based amps. An upgrade over the previous gen Ice which the PS Audio M700s are based on |
clearthinker? LOL you go from first person to who knows whta to validate your personal opinion " I personally find that class D amplification sounds just dreadful to those familiar with the sound of real music, instruments, and acoustic spaces."
I am quite familiar with live and reproduced music via claas A, AB, tube, and 4 different class Ds (soon to be 5) . and while I somewhat agree, having owned earlier generations from W4S, my Audio Alchemy stereo amp sounds like real music, at least WHEN the recording is well done , but bad discs sound BAD. |
jetter, I wouldn't be surprised if sme of the haters own/work for hi-end companies who are stuck in the past with no way out |
jimclark
this is great news and well hidden from the public.
After months of searching, I finally have a PS 5 being delivered today to pair with my AA DDP-1, match to my AA DPA-1 stereo amp.
Also arriving today, a pair of PS M700s and GC Stellar DAC |
Mad respect to Colin. About 6 months ago I came very close to buying, his Ice Edge then learned more about NCore and could not decide. Complicating the purchase, Im in USA, where there is almost zero Nord resale market
Prior to my next purchase I had 2 Emerald Physics 100.2 SEs with upgraded fuses, which I found thin in the mids (they replaced a W4S MC 250/500 multi-channel amp) the 250 sounded different than the 500. I latter learned they were different modules
I replaced the EPs with a used Audio Alchemy DPA -1 (stereo amp: MSRP $1995), which I bought at ~ 50% off. My preamp is the AA DDP-1.(also $1995 (sans PS 5 power supply: $695).
This combination trounced the EP. After many months I was finally able to purchase a demo PS 5 power supply at 30% off. That addition can be likened to a young boys puberty voice change.
I also am taking delivery of a slightly used (~ 300 hours) 3 piece PS Audio M700s (Ice modules) + Gain Cell dac//pre at ~ 40% off.
These class D experiences will prepare me for what comes next, but sooner or later there will be a next
I hear you saying "BUT"
Well, this Nord could well be many people's last amp purchase, but what about GaN, etc? The good and bad is Class D is a fast moving target. Both Ric of EVS and Ralph of Atmosphere are entering the game soon |
plga
awesome comments
what is your preamp and source |
yes there are uber expensive class D amps that may or may not be any better than Nord, but here in the USA, PS Audio is leading the way with their Ice Power M700s ($2998 @
350/700w the pair!) and matching Stellar Gain Cell Dac/Pre $1699, plus 2 trusted names, EVS and Atmosphere will soon debut their offerings
I just hooked up the PSA GC dac/pre to compare to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 power supply ($1995 + $650)
next week I will hook up the M700s to compare to my AA DPA -1 stereo amp |
Report:
First I hooked up the PSA M700s with my AA DDP-1 and finally a PS 5 power supply. Why these were ever sold separately is a mystery as the PS 5 unleashes the DDP-1s true potential
My big issue in getting the M700s was the small but mighty AA DPA-1 just wasn’t driving my big ass room, so... enter the M700s. I was told by the seller they had maybe 200 hours, and I’ve read that 300 begins to reveal their wonderfulness. They’ve been powering the EP KCIIs since Saturday evening. And yes, my room needed that double the power, but possibly Edge 1200s will be in my future, but as of last night when I spun Diana Krall Impulse: WOW
Texture in spades, expansive and sweet sound reminiscent of Rogue M 150s with cryoed tubes; along wth ample power. I hear zero nasties unless recorded on the cd, and boy I can really hear how poorly mastered some cds are
At 4k the pair, GaN can wait
So AA is for sale, but not because the PSA blows it away, although it does in this room
|
Tim, of course.
I have a few torture dics- Annie Lennox Annie Lennox (solo) Jennifer Nettles Playing With Fire and Wilson Philips. It had been a couple weeks since playing JN and although the poor recordings sucked, they sucked less, as the M700s were able to unravel more; or was it the dac in the Stellar GC... or was it that the amps took better control of my speakers..., or the large space, or some combination? Hard to tell
Last night and this morning the XLO break in disc has been on repeat to expedite that final bit of break in. Probably should have done that from day one. |
I wouldn't consider it for a system aspiring to hi-end
Hattor, and Tortuga aer 2 I highly recommend
Also (and I learned this the hard way) one needs to make sure the impedance is a match |
Update:
I have 2 burn in discs that I use. For some reason I neglected to use them as soon as I inserted the PSA kit. Last night I hit replay all and let one spin for at least 5 hours (muted of course), then again this morning for a couple more. I then played Jennifer Nettles Playing With Fire, which I played the day before the burn in disc.
Far from erased all issues, BUT, nonetheless an amazing transformation. The entire sound stage is more spread out. The location of musicians and backup singer,s as well as tone and clarity is significantly improved |
Cyloc, as a very happy owner of M700s paired with Stellar GC, 200 hours isn't near enough, unless break in is with a break in disc. Im looking forward to his response
And yes, cables & ICs matter- A LOT.
Last night I spun The Eagles The Very Best Of ( 2 CDs). CD -1 was not well recorded, but dics 2 was, and the best Ive ever heard it sound by a wide margin |
Now,
after a solid week of further break in of the M700s + Stellar GC dac/pre, I invited a
friend over with a ton of live music experience. He heard the system with the
Audio Alchemy kit, and did not hold back his valid criticisms. He did not hear
the system with the AA PS 5 power supply, which did make a huge difference, but
still, nothing like now with the PS Audio. There’s just no substitute for raw
horsepower (AND POSSIBLY SOME REFINEMENT IN THE GC VOLUME CONTROLLER AND/OR ITS
INTERNAL DAC’)
My friend is a rocker: Me, not so much, but I have enough to satisfy an occasional itch, so, first up was SVA (Stevie Raye Vaughn) volume was cranked to concert equivalent level and wow, wow, wow;.My $2500 Emerald Physics KCIIs dealt t with no strain. SVA was followed by Peter Gabriel "Secret World Live" This was followed by Tina Turner ’Private Dancer’ then The Pointer Sisters Greatest hits .
In all cases the music was seamless, bass, brass, and drums had ample tonality and packed a mean ass punch (WITHOUT USING MY SUBS NO LESS) not a hole I could detect, and my friend couldn’t stop repeating many accolades, even during songs, which irrates me to no end
My next move is a big step up the EP speaker line
hth |
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