It's a more civil way of discourse that I'm keen to observe. |
Etiquette, with audiophiles?
Surely you jest sir.
:-) |
Commercialization is the villain. Music has become a commodity. Try looking outside this continent to find something new and challenging.
Stay away from formula driven music. Avoid rehashed drivel. Take a chance on something you normally wouldn't. Go outside your comfort zone.
Good luck,
Nonoise |
Okay, I'll admit that what I said was a bit of a downer, and optimism is always better than pessimism, but people shouldn't follow their cult leaders rants, blaming a group of people for the ails of society.
That's where is all starts. History is full of the results. Use that tether.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I should stop living in denial and get one of those AARP cards.
I live now for discounts. |
I think the loss of civility is the canary in the coal mine in that it is one of the symptoms of a declining civilization. History is full of the declines of empires from Easter Island to the Roman Empire to the recurring 52 year cyclic reinvention of the Mayans and their eventual unraveling.
Standards of living have been so improved that, short of nuclear annihilation, we won't see our own decline or that of others but rather a gradual realization that we have simply, and irrevocably, taken a turn for the worse.
The music that results from that is a reflection of that trend which seems to annoy us to no end. Because of this slow and bastard form of decline we will always have that tether to the past that allows us look both forward and backward.
Lest the youth aren't made aware of this tether they will continue onward into god knows what, but it won't be for the better. The loss always manifests itself culturally. Better teachers are needed but to blame poor schooling on unions is a bit of a stretch. Unionized teachers of Europe are the contributing factor to their higher achievement levels they hold over us.
All the best,
Nonoise |
If Chris Hedges were an audiophile, things would get interesting really quick.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Yes, nice post Simao, and like Almarg, there is no hesitation when I hear something I don't like as I just hit the other preset. We vote with our wallets, feet and fingers.
Something alluded to but not fully fleshed out is that as I grow older, I find myself less tolerant of what I consider bad music. I think it's one of those rights I think I've "earned" having been here long enough on this mortal coil. Expressing that right is generally tolerated by society as I can be thought of as "that old codger", or something along those lines.
People have become aware that music can be nothing more than an extension of one's personality and there are some pretty rotten people out there with attitudes up the ying yang. It's like the guy with the pit bull at the park who lets his dog jump at you only to restrain it when needed, or the fool who comes up next to you at the stop light with his personality blasting out the window, complete with the "I don't care what you think" expression. Music has taken a turn for the worse as this is the kind of popular music being marketed nowadays. Who wouldn't bemoan it?
Great and wonderful music exists and there's more out there than I can listen to but when just about every kind of contraption out there is capable of transmitting peoples personalities, invading my personal space, it becomes annoying, which I think is behind the OPs post. Boundaries are being crossed and respect is not a consideration. Cell phones are propped on desks playing music I never asked to listen to and people are singing loud enough with their headphones on to be a nuisance.
So, yes, some new music can and does suck.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Not to pat ourselves on the back but can it be that our audiophile tendencies in the pursuit of better music reproduction dovetails with better music appreciation?
With the lower quality sources and playback devices we are bombarded with, is it really any wonder why we are less tolerant? This reminds me of the commercial where two cars are stopped at an intersection and one them has what appears to be two thugs blasting their music. The man in the other car says something like he can't take it anymore and with his wife saying "Don't", gets out of his car and gets in with the thugs only to adjust the equalizer on their stereo, explaining how and why he's doing it, with the thugs nodding in approval.
I wouldn't recommend doing it but the Walter Mitty in me smiled.
All the best,
Nonoise |
What constitutes an illogical obsession?
Is that in the DSM on psychological disorders?
Absolutely no connection nor indication of music appreciation?
Again, I'l like to see the data.
Do you see anyone here as having an illogical obsession with stereo gear and not appreciate music?
Please cite the post(s).
You posit too many extremes and take a giant leap in logic to arrive at, what?
An exercise in trolling?
All the best,
Nonoise |
Again, extreme posits put forth as truth without question as only you can see it.
Objectivity my man. Objectivity. No one holds all the cards.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Wow.
That's the kind of logic that gets the Heritage Foundation in trouble.
Coach a bias in something resembling academia and you can feel better saying it.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Conservatism, by its very nature, resists change, for any reason. Your "long haired" story brings back memories for me as well. Don't think though, for a moment, that it has died down even with the changes in hairstyle and acceptance of some music. "Hippy Punching" is alive and well in all manner from discourse to open action and still influences decision making on many levels.
The time frame you mention is only a few decades ago and has a very long way to go. Look at the "Wars of Northern Aggression" attitudes of today. Old habits, beliefs, mores and folkways die hard if not linger on in some illogically resistant form, impervious to facts coupled with an inability to move onto the next evolutionary step.
It's no wonder music can suffer as a result. Thank goodness that there will always be artists who stand out against the norm, the bland, the lower denominators that are marketed by the majors with their tried and trued, market driven formulas. They always say that they only give the people what they want. To that I call "B.S." People can be accepting of a lot more than what they're given. First thing I'd do is stop all the focus groups which serves nothing more than to dilute artistic expression and keep things in their comfort zones. Show me any decent artist who stayed within the lines and I'll show you a crass opportunist.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Ionmoon,
Missed your post while writing my rant, but thanks for the clarification. I don't think it would apply to anyone here, yet. :-)
All the best,
Nonoise |
Csontos, You've a keen eye. Yes, a firm foundation is needed to proceed from. It's just the resistance part I hate. And boundaries are needed to know where to proceed from, where to test the waters. And yes, there is nothing new under the sun, just the shady spots that haven't yet been explored. :-)
All the best,
Nonoise |
What I alluded to is what has yet to be seen or discovered, maybe anew, or simply overlooked or needing a new twist or take. We all create based on what we know, what is passed on freely from others, and some times we invent, creating something great out of many plain and ordinary pieces.
As for what's hidden in plain sight (I think that's what you meant), I'm famous for missing those gems.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Granted. And probably never will. It's like when I was a kid: I'd spend a lot of my time in the library and dream of reading ALL the books and how wonderful it would be. Bad eyesight put a serious chink in that design.
Thank goodness my ears work well enough.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Nothing. I'm still looking, listening and absorbing. I just don't feel the urge to ferret out everything that's available.
You're point? |
I like music from all time frames but would not like being stuck in some era and do my best to make it sound good, only to come to the conclusion that the gear doesn't matter, it's the music. Why have this hobby? It's the fox and the sour grapes analogy. Older recordings can only sound so good and simply can't be rescued. Some can sound really good, but just some. It can be a great piece of music, but too bad it wasn't recorded with todays equipment.
Another overlooked aspect is when someone doesn't realize they no longer really like the music but long for the times when it was made and use it as a device to anchor themselves in the past.
C'est la vie.
As for what sounds good, haven't we all had this discussion before? It all boils down to personal taste and no one here is correct. No one here is determinant in their perspective to the point where we all acquiesce.
For me, the gear makes it possible to get lost in music and if it's great music, all the better.
All the best,
Nonoise |
On the suck meter they're off the scale. I'm still smiling from that one. Every time I put on a poor recording on I rescue it. It's the very act of listening to it that can make up for a poorer recording. The quality of the music itself calls for resuscitation now and again. :-) All the best, Nonoise |
I don't think that music takes a back seat in the equation but look at it as a passenger in a conveyance. The passenger (music) can be conveyed in a Bentley (the gear) and arrive in wonderful shape whereas the same passenger in a donkey cart would suffer accordingly, arriving in poor shape (with shape being the appreciation aspect). If I hear a song or piece of music I love on a rather crappy device, I'll like it but nowhere near as much as on a good system, which can literally transfix and transport me. I still like the music at a lower level of fidelity but I love it when at a higher level of fidelity. Music is never a secondary consideration for me and was never implied. The quote: For me, the gear makes it possible to get lost in music, and if it's great music, all the better implies (quite frankly) that the music I love is all the better when it can emotionally move me and great equipment is what can do it. Listening to something I love is appreciated differently depending on the setting. To say otherwise, that it would move me equally under all circumstances would be disingenuous. Can anyone here tell me with a straight face that at moments when, at home with your system, playing a piece of music takes you into a reverie, momentarily, has the same effect as listening to it while driving? All the best, Nonoise |
Thank you Simao. It's spoken word performance and every bit as bad as when the beatniks did it. Hip-Hop is no different as far as I can tell.
Didn't like it then, don't like it now.
People keep mistaking it for music, and talent.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I like it when a referee blows the whistle. |
I think Marty's thoughts of the composition of audiophiles here closely mirrors mine. I'm as progressive as they come and try to keep an open mind, but I've always found that I've never much appreciated lots of music that most here find enjoyable, let alone compelling.
Most of the music I grew up with and liked I rarely listen to anymore. For the most part, my tolerance has stayed consistent for all my life: I tend to move on to new areas and discover ones I missed, but I'm never in the need for consensus. I'll take advice, but just that. Music is much too personal for me to give into what the masses demand.
That being said, it's one's taste and one's taste only. Let the historians debate who's best for any given time and era. They'll never agree-what chance does anyone here think we will? A fools errand at best.
All the best,
Nonoise |
***Definitions of _______become irrelevant to those offended by it.***
Scary to think of what could be inserted as it would have grave implications. I know that wasn't your intention but when I reread it.......
And yes, the Beatles were 'better'.
Rok, when it comes to rap, I'm beyond outrage and now just despair for my fellow man, whatever his/her status. :-)
All the best,
Nonoise |
*But it's always been the simplest of melodies that are the most pleasing Couldn't have said it better myself. |
The simplest of melodies being the most pleasing allows one to what can be expressed with a minimum of expression. Nothing overtly ornate or colossal in scope, nothing pounded down your ears.
At a social gathering, It is the gifted ones who can make me relate with a gesture, a phrasing or a tell. The loud guy in the corner makes me look for another room, or to go outside. :-)
The same goes for music, at least with me. Beauty is in simplicity, but simplicity can be on grand scale when done right. Less chance of conflict, chaos and cacophony. Not all that is simple is pleasing, it's just that when done right, it can be beautiful. That's why I find solos, duets, trios, and small ensembles potentially great since it takes more talent to convey with less.
All the best,
Nonoise |
