keep this in mind...roberjerman has claimed over and over, that power cables have NO difference in sound, from one to another. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Keep in mind, you would need equipment that has an iec connector, unless you are willing and able ( as I have done many times ) to internally rewire the factory cord with an upgraded cord. Most newer equipment has iec inlets, most older pieces do not ( which is why maybe someone has not tried after market cords ). But it is the blind, deaf and dumb that makes such arguments. Pcs make a difference. Enjoy ! MrD. |
kijanki….+1.....Enjoy ! MrD. |
There was a time when the high end manufacturers did not supply iec power cord inlets ( they were all hot wired ) on their equipment. I have not seen a high end piece as of late that is not equipped with an iec inlet. What does this tell you ? Enjoy ! MrD. |
@analogluvr Am I to assume you have joined the other two I mentioned, or to put it another way, just pick a side. @N80, I am in no way being trollish, as you say. Just stating the facts, doc. " The rest of us have to deal with " ? Really ? Are you kidding me ? Enjoy ! MrD. |
It amazes me how a subject such as this still continues, and brings such diversity. I have NEVER purchased a pc, ic, fuse, or isolation product, prior to evaluating them. As a member of the professional audio community, I was always able to get " loaners ", and never imagined anything I heard. None of that psychobabble bs, that what I was hearing is all in my head. And, although I think I am a smart and experienced guy in the 2 channel audio field, I solely rely on my ears, and not the photons, or any of that other crap some of you guys are talking about. I will say it again. " There are different kinds of us audio guys / gals ( consumers ). *** Those that are open minded, and use their ears ( like myself ). And of those, some who hear differences, and some who do not. *** Those that have never tried to listen ( experimented ), and are somewhat clueless to the audible effects of such devices. *** And then you have the " trolls " such as roberjerman and kosst, who fight against us " listeners ", demanding scientific data and proof, but will continue to battle, likely because of manhood issues, as it cannot be anything else. It just amazes me. Enjoy ! MrD. |
N80. I am not fond of the power cables your brother in law gave you, but here is an idea. Your preamp and amp have iec inlets, with these upgraded power cords in use at this time. I am sure you have a few " standard " iec power cords, from say a desktop, that you can substitute them with. Make the change of the power cords, Listen for a few days, and get back to " us " with your findings. This will let all of us know what kind of " listener " you are ? A simple, no cost challenge. Actually,don’t do it for me, as I am way past that, but, do it for you, as the experience will be enlightening. And here is the thing. And here are your choices. #1 : You will not do it, nor feel like doing it. # 2 : You will do it, but the results might be, you either hear a difference, or you don’t. # 3 : If you hear differences, you could speak about them here. Or not. No hard feelings to any of you, but I am sure many of you have a " gift " in some area of your life. 2 channel audio is mine. Enjoy ! MrD.
|
prof….maybe you should do the same as I suggested to N80, but in reverse, as many need to do. Borrow one. Just be happy. We are talking about musical enjoyment in our homes, bringing me to : Enjoy ! MrD. |
Prof, what components in your rig has iec inlets, that you have tried aftermarket cords ? Your CJ Premier 12 monos certainly do not ( which, btw, are not bad cords, as I have dissected a pr. of them with better cords ). I am interested to know, as well as the pcs you tried. Thank you, and....Enjoy! MrD. |
From the beginning of time, men, in particular, have argued, combated, debated, etc., stating " mine is bigger ", or " mine is better ". Nothing new. Psychology 101, as I do not have to tell you. This lead me to my statement. And, if you followed the 2 specimens of men I mentioned, you will understand. Enjoy ! MrD. |
George and kosst, you guys really crack me up. It is worth coming here just to read the 2 of you. Enjoy ! MrD. |
So prof, it seems that you did not hear differences in the pcs you tried. If you did, or thought you did, you doubted yourself as a listener, and claim placedo effect. That is a problem right there, so thanks for clearing that up. Are all of your buddies who loaned you cables, experiencing the placedo effect? Are you saying that everyone is experiencing the placedo effect, in this particular instance. You can " shrink " this all you want, as I know the listener you are, which is ok with me, and, I know the listener I am. And if this concerns you, bothers you, intimidates you, well...…………….I mean no harm. Cheers, and Enjoy ! MrD. |
prof, you never stated in your earlier posts that you did not hear any differences with the Shunyata cables, although, I assumed it by your writings. Is it possible for me to be wrong ?. Anything is possible, but I have not been wrong that I can remember ( and, I am talking about, and only about, this particular subject concerning my listening abilities ). There have been times I have not heard a difference, or a difference that was very subtle. Generally, quite dramatic. What about your friends and buddies ? You did not answer that question. And, I am not sure what " test " you are speaking of. I take a cord out of my system, replace with another one, and wait. I listen to the same several songs I am familiar with ( and these are mostly from audiophile labels ), as I feel they are less processed at the studio end, and show greater sq than most. But, I can also play something like the Rolling Stones’ Wild Horses, and hear differences, when differences exist. Here is another one for you. Not only do I hear differences in power cords, but I can hear them " break in " ( also known as burn in ) with use and time. There are other threads about breaking in of equipment here, and elsewhere. On another thread, I stated that I was, once again, cleaning out my closets, of the plethora of amplifiers I have on hand. In this process, I am listening to them again, and even modifying a few, before I sell them. You know what. They are all different is sq. So listen, I feel I am wasting my time here, with you, and some others, so I am happy to move on and let things be. So, continue pronouncing on the subject, as you will no longer have me reply to you. We are obviously worlds apart in certain areas of this hobby, no matter what you may say or think. Although, we both enjoy music, and enjoy listening to music. Be well, be merry, and Happy Holidays. Enjoy ! MrD. |
N80, I am done with prof and analogluvr, as they are no longer worth my time. I indicated that I did not like the cables in your system, because somewhere, I remember reading you mentioning the brand " Transparent ", I do not like the sound of that brand’s cables ( speaker, interconnect and power cables ). If I spoke out of line about that, I apologize. If in fact, you have after market cables ( heavier and beefier than just the computer cables I mentioned you might have lying around, I still feel it would be worth it to exchange them out, and, not for me, or anyone else. Just to see if you can hear a difference. You do not need to dissect it further as to which you prefer, just that a difference might be audible to you, or not. My biggest gripe with " those folks " who are against these differences are ( 1 ) If they never tried a different cable or ( 2 ) They tried a different cable and did not hear a difference, and then claim that these differences do not exist. I also do not believe that it is impossible for some people to believe I am an expert in this field ( the listening side ), and have such a hard time with it. My ears are likely no better than others, but my time and experience in the field has allowed me to train myself to hear very minute differences amongst all related items in audio. Keep in mind, also, that there are quite a few of me out there, as I know others. Some right here on the ’Gon. * A good friend of mine is a retired sheriff, has a huge gun collection, and teaches at a shooting range. I consider him an expert in the field of hand guns. I am clueless about guns. I have another buddy who is into automobiles ( such as yourself). He builds, and rebuilds, and rebuilds. I consider him an expert in his particular field of automobiles. He can do a mod on a suspension, or an engine, take me for a ride, and ask me if I feel a difference. Never have. Just putting this out there. I have no interest in guns; I have no interest in vehicles ( I drive a 2018 CRV Touring ). These two buddies come to me as their audio guru ( many do ). And they both spend much more money on audio than I do. I do not like making enemies, and I am pretty much an easy going guy. But, I do know what is real, " to my ears ", and anyone who says I am imagining it, well, we will go our separate ways and be done with it. As I have said to you before, in the 6 months you have been here, you have had much to say, that I find enjoyable to read. After all, it is all about the music. Never hard feelings, especially when in this hobby, and enjoyable pastime. Enjoy ! MrD. |
cakyol, I described you perfectly as one of " those folks ". Enjoy ! MrD. |
N80, would you mind if I forward you information on a cord, specifically for your Proceed amp. It is from China by an excellent manufacturer, and depending on the length you need, would run under $100. I recommend them often. You could also rent one from the cable company. Listen, I have no clue why ? I am thinking your cousin who had the system before you, purchased the system from a high end shop ( possibly an expert ), who put the system together for him, as, I feel it is proportional to the cost of each piece, and I can conceivably have an idea what your system sounds like, as I am familiar with each of the components, as well as the speakers. Enjoy ! MrD. |
If China and Hong Kong cables are out. : Silnote Poseidon GL power cable, is $99..... Poseidon GS power cable, is $199.....And they go up from there. (They have speaker and IC cables as well, all with many accolades from reviewers and customers ).These are priced for a 1 meter length ( more $ if longer ), with a 30 day money back guarantee, lifetime warranty, and they go through a bit of a burn in at the factory. Check out their web site. Enjoy MrD. |
Oh, N80 hears the improvement with his updated house wiring. Ok, that is a start. I do caution anyone to use knob and tube wiring, as it does not sound better ( unless it was installed " dedicated " from the panel, which I believe is what he is hearing ). and certain electrical ordinances do not allow it. When building a new home, the wiring used, and " how " it is routed from the box to the dedicated sound room / theater room, will be very significant in the final results. Nonoise, the entire argument of the naysayers is ridiculous, because, they either did not try it, or tried it and heard no difference, as pointed out by N80. You and I, and a few others, know what we hear, and this thread, as far as " I "am concerned, will be ending soon. The heading of this thread is " Why ", and this is a reason for the naysayers. But interestingly, so many threads have started " wow, I hear a difference ", and the naysayers still show up as well. A joke, actually. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Nonoise, I leave them all to you....I am exhausted, and likely done here. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Nonoise, naysayers are excellent in pulling us in to these conversations and debates. I have nothing to prove to them, and do not care in what they think or believe. They have the problems and issues with it, not you, and certainly not me. I am learning who " these folks " are, and I will avoid and ignore them whenever I can. I try to help others to experience improvements in sq, but it requires them to try things for themselves. Truly, this is their loss if they don't, because either they doubt what the ear / brain thing can do, or, simply, do not have the abilities to hear, what you and I, and so many others, hear. That's it. Done. So, my advice to you, as I will do, is to bail out from this thread. Believe me, " these folks " will surely show up elsewhere, repeating the same behavior. This is " high end audio ", which is all about extracting those last bits of musical information from our systems. This is why we spend the money we do. See you around. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Somehow, I believe kosst, just might hear a difference between the power cable currently used with his home built F5, vs. another after market cord. If kosst has hot wired his cord, I know he would not make the change. But, if kosst used an IEC inlet in the build, it would pretty easy for him to do so and try. Oh my, could you imagine if kosst " did " hear a difference between the two, would he come on here and admit it ? What if he did not hear a difference. He would not want to admit that either. Enjoy ! MrD. |
kosst, I make points often, that not everything will show up in measurements, such as this power cord thing. Comparing 2 12 gauge pcs from different manufactures, I hear differences. I have built cables, using the same wire, but different connectors, and I hear differences. The opposite is true, too, same connectors but different wire. Before I determine which is better ( which would be up to me anyway ), I listen for the differences, and they do exist (just like the M&Ms guy and Santa, in the commercial, lol ? I am not sure measurements can reflect these differences. I changed similar values of storage capacitors in an amplifier recently, and I heard differences, and the amp was not that old where the caps needed to be changed. I spent money to upgrade. Before I ever determined which capacitors I preferred, I concentrated on listening to the differences, with my test music. And then there was the " break in " period, which we disagree on as well. I do not know if these capacitors would show differences when being measured. Measurements are necessary, but, in the end, it is listening that's matters most. Peace and joy to all. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Theories and evidence ? Plausible explanations ? Measurements ? It doesn’t matter the reasons. Many of us hear these differences ( for whatever the reasons ), and actually conclude on determining preferences. If you have an interest in the subject, and would like to see ( hear ) if these audible differences exist, just try it. If you do not try it, you will not know. Enjoy ! MrD. |
The Belden brand " connection " that comes with equipment, is generally under a purchase agreement, contracted to the manufacturer, as their wire supplier. There are around 40 other well known companies who " manufacture " electrical wire, such as Carol, Southwire and GE ( and these, along with Belden, are some of the largest producing wire companies in business today.), that supply power cables to manufacturers. Wires for appliances, auto, aircraft, medical, clock radios, etc. All of these wires do need to conform to specific electrical guidelines and UL rules, etc. So, a cable that is supplied with a CJ power amp ( CJ has been contracted with the same wire company, which is a smaller producing company, for as long as I can remember ). |
For whatever reason, my post was cut short. My CJ statement was supposed to indicate that the wire CJ uses, was selected, based on purchase price, availability and the requirements CJ needs to " get the job done " , probably not on sound quality ( from Electri Cord of the NE). An analogy : Tire manufacturers to vehicle manufacturers. The tires that come equipped with new vehicles are generally not the best available, as the vehicle manufacturer is not buying the best tire available ( in most cases ), even from the same manufacturer of the supplied tire. I likely will notice a change in the tires, by the ride and handling of the vehicle. Would a 12 year old sitting in the back of the vehicle notice ? The naysayers remind me of the kid in the back seat. Ear = designed to listen and hear. Most of us can hear direction of sounds, but, deeper within the brain = dissecting and descrambling the information, with the interpretation of better ( just go with different ) sq. Michael Green stated this earlier. Power cables are not new, but the controversy seems to be growing ,and I am with him in noticing. 20 years ago it was just accepted. I believe a reason is simply pricing. All of high end audio is expensive today. Ridiculously so. Best to you all. Enjoy ! MrD. |
prof, I indicated to you, and others, that I have no reason to respond to your ignorance or foolishness. I am never " sold " on anything, as I seek to " buy ", as, there is a difference between the two. My listening, my system, my music, my experiences, my money. Why do you care ? Stay in your camp, and I will stay in mine. The fact that you claim to not hear differences, does not mean that differences do not exist, as I certainly do hear differences. I am not trying to prove to you anything, as I do all of this buying, trying, tweaking, and of course, ultimately, listening ( which is why I do not listen with an Aiwa mini system or a boombox ), and, it is for me, and for me alone, as there continues to be more recorded information to be heard from within my music. I will move on, as it is best. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Prof, I just made clear of some human traits I see in others. On top of that, I am not upset in the least. What you or others believe, particularly in high end audio, makes little difference to me. Besides, you seem to be clueless as to the " camps " I am speaking of, or maybe you do. Some of us hear things, and some of us do not. I do not know why that is, but it seems to be the case. Enjoy your holidays, be well, and....Enjoy ! MrD. |
Again, after the last post from prof and analogluvr, they are simply missing out on the fact that " after market power cables " make a difference, and generally, improvements. So, while I am enjoying these improvements in sq in my listening, they are still battling it. I have no problem with it. It is the loss of the naysayers. I did mention somewhere to prof, that I changed out, via hardwire, from the cords that were on a pair of the exact CJ amps he owns, with that of a heavier gauge, and supposedly, better quality cable. Even if it was simply the gauge of the wire, the audible improvements in sq were immediately obvious, to not just myself, or even the owner of the amps, but other listeners who were at that particular get together. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Not that anyone cares, but I will no longer be responding to any naysayer comments. It is obvious to me, that I, and others here, have a greater degree / ability to hear certain things, and it is a waste of my time and energy to indulge in any more of this nonsense and immaturity. I wish everyone here, and yes everyone, a Merry Christmas, and a Happy and Healthy New Year. And again, those that have not "tried " to listen, do not, imo, belong on a high end audio forum, such as Audiogon, as it is still all about the " listening ". Always, and Enjoy ! MrD. |
I have a scenario for you. Talking with my friend via cell phones, he is driving home from work. 1st, using his vehicle's bluetooth system. He gets home, no longer Bluetooth, he is now on speaker phone, walking from his vehicle to his house. Now he is in his house, scrounging around his kitchen. Then, he walks into his bathroom to tinkle. Through our phone's speakers, I hear the acoustic differences of his voice from each one of his surroundings. He questions me every time, " where am I now ? ". I hear it every time. I am familiar with his voice, and familiar with every scenario of his surroundings. I can say to any of you, this is not my imagination. Many of us have this ability, as I am not alone. No different than hearing differences in power, speaker and interconnect cables. When it comes to listening, and hearing, either you can, or you can't. Happy New Year to all, and Enjoy ! MrD. |
Geoff, lets not forget the iec and power connectors ( Furutech, Oyaide, Wattgate, etc.) used on the cables, for reasons you mentioned, that play a large part of what we are hearing as well. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Going back 40 years, I have been replacing hard wired factory power cords with larger gauge wire on 100's of amplifiers ( such as Marantz model 15, Citation 12 and 16a, Phase Linear 400, SAE 2200, Nad 3020, Rotel RB850 or a Soundcraftsmen A400, CJ Premier 12, Yamaha P2050, just to name a few ). The new cable was from either Carol or Southwire, 12 gauge, unshielded, with standard Wattgate plugs. Nothing fancy. Tremendous improvement in sq, in every instance. Did it on everything, including preamplifiers, cd players, tuners, equalizers, etc, with great improvements in sq. Were all of these products produced with poorly designed power supplies ? I doubt it. Personally, I was not a fan of IEC inlets when they started showing up on gear, as I believed, and still do, hard wiring to be a superior connection, but I do understand, and have adapted to the iec standard. Power cables make a difference, and hearing is believing......Enjoy ! MrD. |
@mzkmxcv...….I am talking about power cables. Not understanding what you are questioning, but you obviously are like some of those naysayers I have stopped communicating with, over our differences of what power cables bring to the table. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Trolling, obviously. Never trying, or listening, for himself. I am done with this guy ! |
Some of the differences heard : Increase in dynamic range; greater ability to hear finite details; smoother and more extended top end; deeper, fuller and greater extension of bottom end; easiness and flow of the music; instruments and vocals became clearer; musicianship easier to follow; soundspace is more holographic ( wider, deeper and higher ); everything is more coherent. Enjoy ! MrD. |
I cannot believe people here are still communicating with this mzk " guy ". He is unwilling to try an aftermarket power cable, and listen for him / her self. Whatever is said to him, means absolutely nothing. He is doing what he does, as many before him. Let it go......let him / her go. Enjoy ! MrD. |
