2. amps-preamps
  3. 146319-12450

Why the facination with integrated amps?

I don’t get it. Is it the manufacturers spotting a trend with the tail wagging the dog or does a significant market segment truly prefer the idea of an integrated?
Pros;
Less space
One less set of IC’s
In theory-one less chassis/case to pay for
Shorter signal paths possible
Can combine transformer/cap function
Cons;
Power supply interference/spuriae
Reduced Flexibility-can’t switch amp or preamp as easily or go to monoblocs
Less resonance control
Long history of lesser performance per measurements and long-term subjective listening
Less resale value if it turns out to be a fad
Less liklihood of an extremely high performing active preamp

I freely admit I am a skeptic. The industry-like so many others-looks for new market niches to move product. 
FWIW, the only integrateds I myself would care to audition would be from Esoteric and Luxman who have a long history of designing no-compromise (low-compromise) high-end integrateds. 

128x128fsonicsmith

Showing 8 responses by inna

inna
5,245 posts
 
Flemming Rasmussen of Gryphon knew that he was going to retire soon, so he wanted to design the best integrated for almost reasonable cost he could for people who wanted his equipment but could not have separates for one reason or another. Not that he didn't design integrateds before. The result is Diablo 300. But he is separates man. Putting a few components in one box is not really a good idea. Though I wouldn't have space for his separates, in addition to funds.
Separates is always a way to go, if you can and have audiophile knowledge, or a trusted adviser.
inna
5,245 posts
 
Diablo 300 without optional phono and dac is basically a stereo power amp, preamp section is passive. The least expensive Gryphon power amp is I think in the mid-$30k.
Can you do better than the Diablo for $16k with separates, speaking only transistor and hybrid amps ? New - almost certainly not, used separates vs new Diablo - maybe, depends on many things including speakers, maybe not. Personally, I would add great separate tube phono to the Diablo and be happy for the next ten years or so.
inna
5,245 posts
 
Yeah, if you think you need high quality active preamp better go with separates, I guess. Would Diablo's power amp section equal or outperform any separate power amp in most cases within this price range ? That's an interesting question. Theoretically, one can add separate active preamp to Gryphon, let's say tube preamp, if they electrically match well. Adding separate tube pieces to Diablo, phono and active preamp, and see what happens would be true audiophile experimentation.
inna
5,245 posts
 
Take any true high end manufacturer, after hearing their better or any separates you wouldn't want to listen to their integrateds for long or at all. However, there might be exceptions, I heard that some people prefer overall the sound of DartZeel integrated to the separates. I personally have not encountered any exception so far.
inna
5,245 posts
 
Of course, just not the best sound. As mentioned above, power supply compromise is the last thing that I would want and lack of true separation of low level and high level circuitry is a big audiophile no no. 
inna
5,245 posts
 
Right. Including me, at least for now. Economic future is getting more and more uncertain for the majority, I think. I currently spend less on equipment upgrades than I could.
inna
5,245 posts
 
Yes, you might live longer. Question is what for ?
inna
5,245 posts
 
That’s one reason why I am interested in Gryphon Diablo 300 and consider getting it at some point in time, most likely used. It is very close to no-compromise integrated, of course it’s a compromise compared to Gryphon separates. If it lasts me for ten years, even new this would not be too much. Problem is that you have to pay upfront or finance on not so favorable terms. But eventually I think I’ll get it, unless I decide to go all tubes or get very lucky with older Gryphon separates.
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