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Would love some feedback / Denon DL-S1 / phono match / cart recomendations

Would love some feedback / Denon DL-S1 / phono match / cart recomendations

- Vinyl newbie and need some help

- Friend has a brand new  Denon DL-S1 for $600 - good deal?

- I have a Mark Levinson No.326s preamp and just bought the dual mono MM/MC Phono module boards. They are the identical boards from the No,32 preamp and read that was a very nice sounding phono preamp.

- No.326s only has a couple settings 42db or 60 db and 47k ohm or 200 ohm load

- I picked up a used Bob's Device 1131 thinking it would help as my No.326s has limited setting options and read the 1131 might not work well with this cart. That this cart is tough to get the most out of but can be great.

- Should I get another cart? Was it a mistake getting the 1131 SUT. I read the No.326s sounded nice with this SUT so went for it but don't know enough to really know better either way but trying to learn.

- The No.326s phono boards has these little gold terminal screws with easy tighten by hand little knobs on the heads of the screws to add either capacitor or resistor to make the phono very adjustable but would have no idea how to figure out how to use that but thought to mention

- just wondering if this is a bad cart for me to try with my phono and SUT set up and any feedback about anything related to a cart would be super appreciated if anyone reads this. Thanks

more info if helpful below but not need to answer my question just thought to add it :)

______________________________________________________________________________________


I just finished up a full system re-fit with some tweaking here and there still to do but I am extremely happy with the sound I’m getting today from my new to me system. I sold my entire old system that was tubes and high efficiency speakers and got new to me: speakers, amp, preamp, speaker cables and upgraded digital transport and got a new turntable. Kept my DAC never changing that. Love my DAC. 

This system is the best I’ve personally ever had. I’m pretty psyched - so psyched I just added a turntable. 

A modern Version of the VPI Prime Aries with HRX Feet, 10" 3D Arm and Base, Prime Signature Platter, Ring and Motor. 

I am looking for a cart and my friend has a new Denon DL-S1 for $600 he also has a  used but good shape Clearaudio Accurate mc cart for a few hundred but i never heard of this one and a  van den Hul blackheart grass hopper which I know nothing of.

I thought because the Denon is new never used that was the best option but any of you know anything about the other let me know please.
  
Would love some feedback / ideas / thought recommendations and help. I’m a digital guy and want to give vinyl and honest to goodness try.

As stated above I just purchased the dual mono Phono board modules for my
Mark Levinson No.326s linestage so it’s now a full function Preamp and added a Bobs Device 1131 SUT and both were attained a very reasonable cost which was great!

Just not sure if these carts will go with my phono and SUT.

Rest of my System:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5160

- Magico S5 Loudspeakers
- Pass Labs X350.5 Amplifier
- Mark Levinson No.326s Preamp/phonostage
- Bricasti M1 Special Edition DAC
- PS Audio P10 Power Plant
- Kubala-Sosna Emotion SC’s
- Nordost/Cardas IC’s
- Assorted PC's Verastarr/Cardas

- Digital PC based front end that I have been tweaking and evolving:
- Sonore microRendu 1.4
- Full Suite of UpTone Audio Gear
(2) x LPS-1 Ultra Capacitor PS
JS-2 Linear Power Supply
(2) Regens - ISO/Amber
- (8) Canare / Oyide DC cables
- (2) Breeze Audio 12v LPS
- Tellurium Q Black Diamond Reference USB cable
- Curious Regen Link USB Cable.

This Digital Front End beat out: Lumin, Antipodes, Naim and Auralic servers. It needs everything to work so well but man does it work great. My hope is that a turntable can complete and wish some luck I end up liking it better. That’s why I’m asking for help. I want to put my best vinyl foot forward 

** Back Ground info**

** Room is **
14 x 24 w/Cathedral Ceilings - 16 Foot a peak

** Music likes **
Assorted Music but no metal or loud hard rock anymore really - not much Large Scale classical either but everything else. I listen just loud enough to sound its best but not a loud listener. I enjoy normal levels.

** Likes / Priorities **
Transparency - Delicacy - Linear - High resolution - microscope but not sterile not etched or lifeless -some natural warmth and life to the music is key  but love that see through transparency and love precise soundstage - remove as many layers without being clinical - tight bass - hate flab - but don’t need worlds greatest slam but love speed and accurate bass while being musical.

** Perspective **
I’m only a couple months into this new system and I was struggling to get the right Preamp and tried a half dozen or so searching for the right balance and the one that could bring my new system together like only the perfect matching preamp can do. Each system is different so really it must be heard to know it’s what you want. I believe in the Preamp and knew If I could find the right match it would change everything. Well that was the hope.

To make a long story longer the Mark Levinson No.326s preamp did this and more. I was hedging my expectations based on the disappointments of the others I tried and failed but the No. 326s nailed it and honestly it an incredible Preamp and then some. I was so happy I decided to upgrade and add the built in phonostage option and SUT and Turntable here we are trying to chose a cart.

Really appreciate any help you can provide! I know this is kind of long but wanted you guys to know where I’m coming from! If you would like more info please let me know - all comments and feedback are most welcome and deeply appreciated :)




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136 responses Add your response
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @fsmithjack : Yes to late for the @folkfreak advise that I concur/agree with him except that LP can't outperform today digital alternative everything the same.

Now, you said:

""" and wish I had a little more gain.... """

YOU DON’T NEED MORE GAIN FOR ANY CARTRIDGE INCLUDING THE S1.

Your up-dated 326S has more than enough but additional to this fact your speakers works at around 4 ohms and in some frequency range goes to 3.0-3.5 ohms and your Magico has a sensitivity of around 90db.

What means all those?: that the Magico puts out 90db SPL with just ONE WATT AT ONE METER and your Pass amplifier puts SEVEN HUNDRED WATTS AT FULL POWER in that 4ohms speaker impedance.

@fsmithjack , 90db on SPL is a real high volume to listen an audio system and normally if we want higher SPL maybe 93-95dbs ( at listening seat. ) could be way higher and not so good for continuous time because we need to mantain a healthy ears.

I know that all the gentlemans in this thread are like me trying to help but in all these regards I disagree with almost all of them. problem is that almost all of them knows nothing about your up-dated 326S as I’m.

As I told you twice I don’t care what you do, as a fact no one cares but you that’s who will live in the future with that system.

Btw, do you already ask VPI for its new gimball tonearm and if you can mount with out trouble in your TT?


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.


nandric's avatar
nandric
3,263 posts
 

Well I don't believe that one can make music with cart alone.

Those who always refer to the system as whole should also

advice about the adequate phono- pre and its price, then the

right tonearm with its price,  then the right TT with its price,

then then the right amps and , most important, the speakers

and their price. How curious to forget all other necessary  

components. What kind of advice is an 1/5  advice?

fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
Yes namdric for sure the entire system is so very important but the rest of the system I understand, have built and am quite happy with.


Associated Equipment:

Digital Sources: Bricasti Design M1 Special Edition DAC; Sonore microRendu 2.5 Music Server, Uptone Audio JS-2 Linear Power Supply, Small Green Computer Sonic Transporter I5,  Uptone Audio LPS-1 Ultra-Capacitor Power Supply (2), Wyred 4 Sound Remedy Femto Re-Clocker, Uptone Audio ISO Regen, Denon 2910 DVD/CD Player

Analogue: Turntable: VPI Aries 3D Limited Editon, Tonearm: 10.5 Inch Printed 3D, Catridge: Denon DL-S1, Step Up Transformer: Bob’s Device Cinemag 1131

Preamplification: Mark Levinson No.326s Duel-Mono Linestage and phonostage preamp, Antique Sound Labs AQ-2004DT Tube Linestage preamp

Power Amplifiers: Pass Labs X350.5 Balanced Stereo Amplifier

Loudspeakers: Magico S5 M-Cast Bronze Speakers, Rethm Saadhana V3 Speakers

Cables: Phono: Darwin Ascension, Interconnect: Nordost Heimdall 2 XLR (2), Nordost Baldur XLR, Darwin Ascension 2, Verastarr Grand Illusion Signature, Cardas Clear Reflection, Speaker: Kubala-Sosna Emotion 2.5m, AC: Zu Event, Zu Mission, Verastarr Grand Illusion II, DC: Gent Audio Custom DC Cables (Canare/Oyaide) (8), USB: Tellurium Q Black Diamond Reference, Curious Cables 200m Regen link, Audiocadabra Ultimus3 Double-Headed Solid-Silver USB Cable, DROK USB Multi meter/Tester, Digital: Black Cat Silverstar 75 BNC/S/PDIF, MIT Terminator-3 RCA S/PDIF, DH Labs Silver Sonic D-75 RCA S/PDIF (2), Tara Labs Prism 100dx-1 Tosilink, HDMI: AudioQuest Chocolate 1m, AudioQuest Forest 3m, Ethernet: AudioQuest Vodka RJ/E, AudioQuest Forest RJ/E (3), Cardas Clear RJ/E, Netgear GS108 Switch,

Sundries / Accessories: Solid Tech Hybrid 3-Shelf Rack w/matching / attaching Solid Tech Hybrid 2 Shelf Rack, w/Solid Tech Rack of Silence Amplifier Stand, SRA Ohio Class Isolation Platform, Sumposium Segue ISO-Platform, PS Audio P10 Power Plant power conditioner; Red Dragon Audio Ceramic Cable Elevators (4), EdenSound Brass Vibration Weights (8), Bright Star IsoNode Footers, iFi Audio iPower 9V DC Power Supply (2), Uptone Audio Amber Regen, Cardas Audio BTS-9 Banana to Spade, Breeze Audio Linear Power Supplies (2), PS Audio Noise Harvesters (6), Furutech GTX (R) outlet, Oyaide R1 Beryllium AC Wall outlets (2) ; Blue Circle Audio The Yalu Balula (2)
— Fsmithjack


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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
@fsmithjack : """ Are you guys sure I am not way over my head with this cart? """

absolutely yes but not because its design but because for a little more money you could have ( not now that you bougth it. ) a way better cartridge as the A90 . With the Ortofon you can stay very near to the digital alternative and nearer on what’s in the recording and with your S1 decision you are far away from there.

I don't know whom gave you the SUT advise before you bougth it but was not a good advise in anyway.

R.
fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
Yup the SUT was a bad call in my rig with this cart but in fairness to me I bought it before the cart. 

Bob’s Device Cinemag 1131 in perfect 9/10 Condition for $750 for anyone that wants It that has a cart it will work well with.

i am considering a straight up trade my pre for a Manley Steelhead - prob a bad deal for me as my pre is worth more and is a better linestage but the Steelhead Phono I’ve heard is great but doubt I have the guts to pull the trigger. My pre is just too good regardless of the Phono.

I paid $575 with Shipping for Denon S1. Not sure the A90 is a little more money. Plus the A90 had 400 hours and who knows how many real hours. The thing could have 985 hours on it and where does that leave me.

Atleast the Denon is NOS NIB and seemed like a decent cart for $575.

My hope is that it is good enough to wet my appetite for a better Cart and it becomes my first extra in what hopefully is a nice litte stash of clean low carts to play around with. Yippee !!!! Lol 
analogluvr
800 posts
 
 The Denon cartridge is better in the manner that if he doesn't like it he can sell it and probably get his money back. These ortofons you keep going on about, are definitely good cartridges, but you're talking about an extra $1600. 
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @analogluvr : These are some specs of a very well regarded OTL manufacturer for whom I have a great respect:

.......................................................................................................

Output power30 watts per channel into 8 Ω load
 Bandwidth2Hz-75KHz within ½ dB
Hum and noiseLess than -75db below 1 watt, -95db below full power (30 watts)
DistortionTotal Harmonic Distortion ( THD ) typically 1% at full power
Feedback 2 dB

....................................................................................

maybe the numbers on your OTL could be better I don't know because you did not name it.

Well, take a look to that restricted/limited bandwidth, noise levels, THD and feedback.
All this numbers only speaks of a technology really limited against today SS amps where as in Spectral the the frequency range goes over 1 Mhz ( if you ask or tell that we don't need that so wide bandwidth then you just can't understand why and my recomendation is that you ask directly to Dr. Johnson Spectral owner. ) but you posted about distortion levels and you can read here that 1% when a SS goes around  0.01 or lower as 0.001 and the like, there you read 2b on feedback and higher noise levels that any SS decent amp.

But if we go to phonolinepreamp all things goes really really worst so worst that it's futile to talk about.

R.
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
@fsmithjack : I linked/posted to you this one with only 100 hours on it coming from a " stellar " owner/seller:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/cartridges-ortofon-mc-a90-2018-01-08-analog   

Certainly you don't read it.

R.
fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
Oh yes I thought we were speaking of the one I posted that I was considering. Half the time on my phone so I didn't notice you offered a mint one. Lot more money but yeah I wish this looks awesome. Maybe I sell my SUT and another interconnect or something and try one of these at some point If they are that good and it change things that much I might need to have to find away to get one at some point. Good to have something to shoot for. I never even knew that cart existed before this thread so good stuff. 
fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
Table has arrived. Wish I had the cart and I would unpack now :)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35630112@N05/shares/ze0346

nandric's avatar
nandric
3,263 posts
 

@fsmithjack , i assume you selected all your components by

yourself? If so why do you need our advice for the cart? What

you need is the opportunity to hear some also for your self.

The carts are the most subjective parts in the whole chain so

each advice will only reflects the subjective preference of the

adviser. The curious case of our ''dualistic nature'': I want to

own the best (possible the most expensive) cart which nobody

else can afford  but I also want YOU to own the same cart.

There is no consistency in such ''double attitude'' (grin).

fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
Nandric - Thanks Yes and No... lol

Every decision I’ve made in my life is my own so no dobt there. I’d like to think I’ve made more good ones than bad ones but heinsight can be such an unfair critic but also a good tool for growth when not too harshly overly employed. One needs to cut oneself some slack for not having a faultless crystal ball if for no other reason than inner peace :) 

With Audio I’ve found these decisions can be helped with getting information from other people that have first hand experience. Especially Audiophiles and more so on Audiogon. Of course a healthy pinch of salt is required in some instances but most all of it can be enterned into ones own mental algorithm to be employed toward the final decision as long as each part is stratisied to remove as much of the personal opinion as possible. 

Your just not not going to find a more intelligent, thoughtful, helpful group of people anywhere in any other hobby in my opinion.

Maybe the common denominator is a genuine love of music whith all its color and beauty tends to make one want to help.

People that so throughly enjoy such beauty and appreciate the challenges of bringing the highest quality of it into our own homes for ourselves and our families seem quite willing to help one another and this common pursuit. This in itself is a fun part of the hobby.

Of course the incredibly made and engineered equipment makes it fun also and getting it all to match just right well that’s the challenge and in my opinion one best pursued by pooling our knowledge and experience.

i wish had this same pool of knowledge and intelligence to draw from with all the decisions I make in life. My bet is that crystal ball would be less valueable :) 

I look at he specs and understand or interpret to the best of my ability and then ask for some opinions when I don’t really understand or need some more clarity.

That said each time I’ve a taken a bit more time when the opportunity to take it presents itself it helps when the brows are taken in proportion to what I’m trying to learn.

All this said if you look at my profile you will see I’ve asked for feedback on my amp, Preamp and Speakers and always got great helpful feedback so this is a decision making tool I find to be invaluable for making better informed decisions regardless of much of it being other folks personal likes or dislikes. It’s still super helpful info. We all love the best sound we can get. :) 
nandric's avatar
nandric
3,263 posts
 

My Gosh I provoked lyrical feelings by @fsmithjack  so he

wrote an poem in prose about our hobby. The characteristic

of modesty and politeness is to ascribe a part of merit to

others. In my case this does not apply for my MC search and

choices. I deed this on my own (grin). The case is that we have

an huge MM-  but not an MC thread.

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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @fsmithjack : @folkfreak posted to you:


"""  Of course it will be fun to learn but don’t expect it to be easy and you should do everything you can at this stage not to make it more complicated than it needs to be.... """

he is rigth and problem here is that the LP alternative is the more imperfect one from the recording pick-up signal at the microphones all over when that signal comes out from the speakers.

Now, taking in count that fact and that you said are a roockie in the LP alternative then : how can you discern between somany different opinions in different analog subjects when you have " no idea " of any of them?

In your thread there are true experts like @dgarretson , @enginedr1960 or @folkfreak  and other gentlemans that I really don't know their " pedigree " level about and as always exist the stupid one like me.

You and no one I knew or I know can learn and has deep contros in the LP alternative through fforums because is truly different than the digiotal alternative or choose electronics. You will need not months but several years to achieve a quality level performance that can competes against today best digital alternative.

Perhaps the fastest gentleman to learns in deep about the LP alternative was and is @dougdeacon and he took some years for that.

Btw, that A90 on sale was compared by the owner against the Goldfinger Statement 2 that its price tag is over 15K, this sole comment by him deserves your personal attention.

Ortofon was the first that brougth a comercial LOMC cartridge  but additional to that one of the best regarded cutting head machines used in the LP recording proccess were the Ortofon ones ( Ortofon had/has one of the best test recording made directly by them in D2D version. ) and this both characteristics gives Ortofon a pedigree level that no other cartridge designers can't ( for now. ) even yet. Here you can read some information of that A90 that between other things comes with the Ortofon exclusive Replicant 100 stylus shape:


https://www.ortofon.com/mc-a90-p-634-n-4873  


In other side your Pass/Magico combination brings to you power of healthy 120 watts of pure Class A, so normally you will listen it almost all the time in that regarded amp class design.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @analogluvr : Here are your beloved tube lower distortion with tigth linearity. If you want it you have to pay for this Signature Phonolinepreamp: 45K for the line unit and additional 36K for the phono unit and additional you have to buy the IC cables and its heavy degradation to the cartridge signal. Btw, beeen tube design of course that come with internal SUTs in favor of cartridge signal degradation. Yes, there are people that bougth it and are very happy with tubes as you are.

I’m refering to the Lamm units where the inverse RIAA eq. deviation is of 0.3db ( terrible for say the least. ) when any 2K SS unit measures no more than 0.1db and my unit only 0.012db ! ! but the Lamm output impedance is the " awesome " 1.3kohms: go figure! and THD in the 1% order.
The line unit is no better with a very limited frequency range between 5hz and 140khz ( and you pay for this 45K. ) and nothing more to add because with that is more than enough.

As member of the AHEE ( like me. ) you only repeat whta they teached and never what is the reality.

Have you a coherent explanation of these " debacle " of your tube dream?, then come and share with us.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.




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fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
Thanks nandric and  rauliruegas

I actually emailed the guy with that A90 and asked if he would be interested in a NOS Denon S1 and a Bob's Device Cinemag 1131 as trades along with cash for his cart. I sure would love to hear my new turntable with the A90 mounted and all set up perfectly by someone that really knows how to do it just right! That would be awesome!

That other guy got back to me and wants to do a straight up swap of my Levinson for a Manley Steelhead but don't think I have the guts to pull the trigger. I looked long and hard for my 326s but man everything I read about the Steelhead say its a great phonostage. My fear is that with my Bricasti it will be a big letdown and don't want to give up already what I know and love. 
fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
I actually just found a very experienced local analogue pro that will come set up my table for me. Psyched... I want to learn but first time out to have an experience guy mount the cart and set up my table properly takes a lot of the worry out of it. Super happy :) 
:) !!!!!
nandric's avatar
nandric
3,263 posts
 

@fsmithjack , Our hobby is also about money so one need to

know something about the theory. Money means liquidity that

is the capability  to buy whatever you want . By barter you have

''the choice'' to get just one commodity in exchange for your

own. That is why people sell their stuff in order to get money.

I deed some with acquaintances because of  the reluctance to

sell to them but this kind of ''trade'' was very disappointing.  As

I already mentioned I paid $900 for the DL-S1 in America while

in Europe  those cost +900 euro. As I understand those Cinemag

SUT's are popular so you will have no problem to sell yours. 

To my mind this is an better proposition than your ''swap idea''.

I already own the AU-S1 so I am curious how an ''perfect SUT/

cart match'' will sound. I hope to get the cart next week.

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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @fsmithjack : You was not very specific to whom of those two A90 sellers gave you that trade offer. I'm sure that the one that owns the Clearaudio can't accept it because the S1 is a " riculous " trading if you let it go the A90 and own the Clearaudio and any SUT is not attractive for audiophiles that has good knowledge level.

In the other side that Steelhead is a BS against the up-dated 326S, yes you read : "  its a great phonostage. ", for whom: for non-audiophiles that have very low knowledge level  and that still think that this new 2018 year in reality it's not but 1960. One of those gentlemans is analogvur that I'm still waiting he shares a wider and true explanation of the tubes supremacy.

Btw, I don't said that SUTs sound bad what I'm telling is that a good high gain design is way superior alternative.

In this same thread I posted: whom of you ( the experts. ) can tell us why exist the SUTs? and till now no one of the SUT proponents shared his explanation. I'm certain that some audiophiles know the rigth answer to that simple question. No, I'm not to share my history about that I posted more than 3-4 times in forums.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
analogluvr
800 posts
 
Raul  are you crazy?! The otl  specs you listed go beyond the limits of human hearing by far in both directions. Total harmonic distortion may be a bit higher than your piece of crap solid-state but it is composed of even order harmonics not odd order harmonics.  There is a huge difference between those two. The OTL will be far more musical and sound far more realistic. Of course if you're just obsessed with keeping the total harmonic distortion low then listen to your crappy solid-state. 
 And I don't care if you were piece of crap solid-state goes to 1 MHz, that's libel to do more harm than good. You are a testament to the dangers of the Internet, on here postulating as an expert freely handing out bad advice. 
 Japanese solid-state receivers from the 70s and 80s had total harmonic distortion numbers of 0.001. According to your philosophy they will sound much better than my atmosphere OTL. 
analogluvr
800 posts
 
@fsmithjack  do yourself a favour and don't listen to Raul . He comes across as an expert as he has nothing better to do than sit in front of his computer all day and respond. Just because you say something over and over and over and over and over does not make it true.
Yes I agree with him that the ortofon A90 is a better cartridge than the Denon. However the Denon was a known quantity at a great price and the ortofon was not.  Hence why I thought you should have went with the Denon, used it for a while and then moved on if you wished. The Denon is a very very capable cartridge. 

 again I cannot overstate this enough, do not pay any attention to Raul.  Anybody who doesn't differentiate between the different kinds of distortion has no credibility. 
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @analogluvr :  Almost everyone attest ( maybe you don't. ) that the R2R audio item is and has the best quality performance levels to listen music in a home system and you know what: R2R mainly generates odd harmonics not even ones.

In the other side odd harmonics can do some kind of hardness/harm to what we listen but that depends on two harmonic characteristics: its SPL and its order generated by the electronic item.

"""  are if you were piece of crap solid-state goes to 1 MHz, that's libel to do more harm than good. """

Look how sure I was that you will gave those kind of wrong answers that in my past posts you can read:


"""  in Spectral the the frequency range goes over 1 Mhz ( if you ask or tell that we don't need that so wide bandwidth then you just can't understand why and my recomendation is that you ask directly to Dr. Johnson Spectral owner. )  """ he is the designer. With very low distortion levels that your or any OTL just can't do it and between other things is why tubes are out of reality and that musical argument you are talking about but that you can't understand it.

You posted:

"""   Japanese solid-state receivers from the 70s and 80s had total harmonic distortion numbers of 0.001. According to your philosophy they will sound much better than my atmosphere OTL.  """


NO, don't put words like that " according to your " because it's not. That's what your limited brain say not me because the Spectral is today unit and its quality levels performance is way beyond your " terrible " OTL can't even approach it. Problem with your OTL is not if its design is OTL or not the problem ( that you just can't understand it. ) are TUBES. Got it? ? ? 

Please talk with Spectral designer and then come back here and share what you learned if any !


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.





analogluvr
800 posts
 
Raul please talk with tube designer and come back and share what you learn.  Oh I forgot you can never learn anything because you already know it all!   I would be more than happy to host anyone and do an A B comparison against any spectral amplifier.  

I don't know enough about reel to reel to get into that debate with you, but I'm sure there are other reasons why it sounds so good besides the fact that it has high odd ordered harmonics.  

Solid state has great specs and is for lovers of equipment 
Tubes are for lovers of music because it sounds like MUSIC 

anyways I'm out of here talking to Raul is like bashing your head off-the-wall
analogluvr
800 posts
 
For other folks with an open mind here's a good link to a post from an electronic engineer
http://www.effectrode.com/signal-tubes/vacuum-tubes-and-transistors-compared/

here's a question for you Raul, which is the faster switching device, the vacuum tube or the semi conductor?   I'll give you the answer because if you don't know you'll just make it up. It's the vacuum tube because it operates in a Vacuum 
analogluvr
800 posts
 
Another link

http://www.theaudioarchive.com/TAA_Resources_Tubes_versus_Solid_State.htmYes 
analogluvr
800 posts
 
 And I do want to say that I have heard solid-state systems that sounds quite good but Raul's insistence on screeching about tubes being inferior just gets under my skin.  Anyone who preaches in absolutes in this hobby is mislead. 
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rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @analogluvr :  Your link for " an open mind folks " comes from here: http://www.effectrode.com/  and nothing of what we are talking here in home audio system hobby where exist phonolinepreamps and amplifiers, all system items in the system link are for home audiophiles.

Well your "  electronic engineer " just " speaks " with out showing any arguments or foundation that can attest what he posted:


Advantages with Tubes:

  1. Superior sound quality.  """ for whom and why? """
  2. Highly linear without negative feedback, especially small-signal types. "" like the LOMC cartridge signal? """
  3. Smooth clipping is widely considered more musical than transistors.  " again. who says that and why? ""
  4. Tolerant of large overloads and voltage spikes.
  5. Characteristics highly independent of temperature, greatly simplifying biasing.
  6. Wider dynamic range than transistors circuits, due to higher operating voltages and overload tolerance. """ Has no idea, only talks. """
  7. Device capacitances vary only slightly with signal voltages (Miller effect).
  8. Capacitive coupling can be done with small, high-quality film capacitors, due to inherently high-impedances of tube ciruits.
  9. Circuit designs tend to be simpler than transistorized equivalents, which are greatly complicated by the need to linearize intrinsically non-linear transistors.  " More complicated because almost any one can design tube circuit but SS devices is only for experts and not for your " electronic engineer . ""
  10. Operation is usually in Class A or Class AB, minimizing crossover notch distortion.  " that electronic engineer is almost an ignorant or stupid one . """
  11. Output transformer in power amp protects speaker from DC voltage due to malfunction and protects tubes from shorts and blunts back-emf spikes from speaker.   """ so what? """
  12. Tubes can be relatively easily replaced by user.  """ so what ? """



Advantages Transistor:


  1. Usually lower cost and smaller than tubes, especially in small-signal circuits.
  2. Can be combined in the millions on one cheap die to make an integrated circuit, whereas tubes are limited to at most three functional units per glass bulb.  "" your way ignorant " electronics engineer " was thinking in integrated circuits. LoL ? ! ! ! """
  3. Lower power consumption, less waste heat, and high efficiency than equivalent tubes, especially in small-signal circuits.
  4. Can operate on lower-voltage supplies for greater safety, lower costs, tighter clearances.
  5. Matching transformers not required for low-impedance loads.
  6. Usually more physical ruggedness than tubes (depends upon construction).


Transistors disadvantages:

  1. Tendency toward higher distortion than equivalent tubed circuits.  """ ignorant and stupid """
  2. Complex circuits and considerable negative feedback required for low distortion.  """ ignorant and stupid """
  3. Sharp clipping, in a manner widely considered non-musical, due to considerable negative feedback commonly used. Does not gracefully roll-off or gently compress; instead, cuts off sharply, suddenly and abruptly with extremely hard edge.   """ ignorant and stupid.  """
  4. Device capacitances tend to vary wildly with applied voltages (Miller effect).


It's a waste of time with your " expert ".

and that's your reference?, now I can understand whom you really are. Something worst that the AHEE.

Good for you.

R.

analogluvr
800 posts
 
Oh gosh Raul your so smart!!!  I had no idea!!  Let me get this straight, anything that doesn't fit with your way of thinking is "ignorant and stupid". 
Thanks for  your enlightenment, oh wise one… 
 What are your qualifications again?? 
Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
2,065 posts
 
rauliruegas
Well your " electronic engineer " just " speaks " with out showing any arguments or foundation ...
OK, Raul, let's look at your "arguments or foundation" ...

for whom and why? ...
who says that and why? ... your way ignorant " electronics engineer " ...Has no idea, only talks ...
SS devices is only for experts and not for your " electronic engineer ...
that electronic engineer is almost an ignorant or stupid one ...
so what? ...
so what ? ignorant and stupid ...ignorant and stupid ...
 ignorant and stupid ...
It's a waste of time with your " expert "...




Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear @cleeds : Facts and arguments are over Agon forum and other forums where I and other audiophiles posted and post.

Problem with those information links are the date of those " studies ": 1973/1998.

Things change in " extreme " in all those years, we have to remember that we live in year 2018 and today electronic design, electronic parts ( pasive an active. ), excecution quality levels already changed for the better: way better than in 1973 ! ! ! 

@analogluvr and maybe you are still living in 1973 along the corrupted AHEE. Never mind, keep in that way. That does not harm any one.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
analogluvr
800 posts
 
Ok Raul, I’ll buy your argument that passive parts have improved. Tube electronics use those same passive parts so they would have improved as well as SS.
You still never filled us in on your qualifications?
as cleeds pointed out your rebuttal lacks substance to the extreme.
I guess we are just supposed to take your word on things. 
nandric's avatar
nandric
3,263 posts
 

I at last got my DL-S1. Designed specific for their very successful

AU-S1 SUT. Matching impedance between both is one thing

but how should one match the inductance of both when this

value is never mentioned by technical specs? Well we can

assume that DL-S1 is also matched qua inductance. For those

who believe that prices do matter an ''killer combo''. For about

$2000 one can get both. I like the balance between fundamentals

and harmonics by this cart but in particular reproduction of string

instruments. For about $900 an real bargain.


bobsdevices
68 posts
 
The real issue is that the DL-S1 has an output of .15mV with an internal impedance of 40 ohms.  There is no step up transformer that can do it justice.  If you raise the gain enough, you load the cartridge too much.  You have to use an active stage with that cartridge.  I also have an issue with a regular poster on this site who spends a lot of time berating equipment he has not tried and is so opinionated that anyone who disagrees with him is an idiot.  He gives lots of incorrect information and some good information, which makes him dangerous.  People who don't know better accept his guidance which in many cases is incorrect.  I don't have much time to spend on sites like this and with this writer in particular, don't have the time to argue with his statements that are grossly incorrect.  So please don't take anyone's word on what sounds good, unless they have actually tried the exact combination.  Saying that someone has tried 4 different SUTs, does not make him an expert.  How were they matched with cartridges and phono preamps, and does he really have golden ears.
fsmithjack's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
fsmithjack OP
605 posts
 
Hey Guys - wanted to share with you my most recent project and review for my network media player:

Bricasti M1 - M5 - M12: Network Player - My REVIEW w/OEM Response Brian Zolner @ Bricasti

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/bricasti-m1-m5-m12-network-player-my-review-w-oem-response-br...
enginedr1960
130 posts
 
So what happened to your vinyl play back rig ? I would like to know if you are satisfied ? The guys on this forum gave you good advice they would like to hear you results . 
bobsdevices
68 posts
 
The Denon DL-S1 has an output of .15mV and 40 ohms internal impedance.  Because of the high internal impedance, an active phono stage will be a better match than a SUT.  Disclaimer- I manufacture Bob's Devices SUTs.  The 60dB gain of your phono stage is insufficient for your cartridge.  I suggest that you either get a different phono stage, or get a different cartridge.  
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