Why is the trend to make separate phono stage

Sbank...mostly true....Gladstone mostly true... but,not necessarily so... and Nrchy..again mostly true. All this IMO of course. But companies do stand to profit from seperates as opposed to single box units. There are some Full function units (line and phono in same chassis) that can compete with the better seperates. ARC's SP-11 is a nice example. A bit dated now, but in its day there was no reason at all to find a better phono pre amp.Although its a matter of design and matching components such as cables, cartridge, and internal load and capacitance from such units to get the best from them. Then the issue of seperating the power supply from the audio circut is a major reason most high end companies ultimately go with seperates usually at the upper end of their line. Less interaction by larger transformers with emf/rfi issues especially of very low level signals means lower noise and better sound. Hey guys, Im no expert.. but just heard and lived a little audio in my day..Best to all!-Ken

the cost of not including a phono stage in a preamp saves the manufacturer money, and putting a phono pre in a separate box is a very very lucrative sideline. they win in both cases. a preamp without a built in phonostage is shameful at any retail price, but unfortunately it is the norm. if the maker offers a phono option for a few hundred bucks..get it.

What a wonderful thread. Somehow we got on this train (EG separate phono section and line stages) and can't get off it. Sbank, are you sure you're correct about only 25% of audiophiles wanting this feature in a preamp? Have you done a study on this?

The recent trend is that analog is more popular than ever, but even taking that into consideration, it was a bad idea to start with.

Your point is well taken about sonic merits for separates IF (and a big if at that) you can get past the interface problems and the added expense of cables + space requirements. Separate boxes usually translates into one more interface problem.

Dcaudio thanks for articulating for what this audiophile has been feeling for a long time.

If the line stage injects noise into the phono stage, an outboard one can sound better. When all is shielded and isolated correctly, the reverse is true, as there are no interconnects involved between phono and line stages. Such is the case with the CTC Blowtorch: those who have compared an outboard Vendetta phono stage (latest tweaked version, of which there are but a handful, including mine) going into a Blowtorch line stage against a Blowtorch with the slightly updated optional Vendetta built in universally report that the latter is better. When the Rev. II Vendetta comes out perhaps by the end of the year (uncertain) it will be as an outboard phono stage, although it will be available as an internal option for the Blowtorch, which is what I plan to do and sell my outboard unit. For what it's worth, the S/N ratio on the Vendetta is at least 40 dB better than that $29k unit MF seemed to like :) ...

Brian Walsh

Thanks for the responses so far. Let me give you some background to why I think this is an important issue. I believe (right or wrong) that the phono section is the hardest part to get right in a preamp. I am also a strong believer that analog is still better than CD and the new formats. At least my analog set-up is better than my SACD player. Maybe if I spent $ 10,000 on the SACD (which is hard to do in a technology that improves so fast)it would be at the same level as my analog setup. However, as I am looking at replacing my current pre-amp I am finding that are virually no state of the art phono/line preamps that could be my pre-am,p for the next ten years. That is at least my ambition that it will last a while when I purchase a new unit.