Why is the trend to make separate phono stage

What a wonderful thread. Somehow we got on this train (EG separate phono section and line stages) and can't get off it. Sbank, are you sure you're correct about only 25% of audiophiles wanting this feature in a preamp? Have you done a study on this?

The recent trend is that analog is more popular than ever, but even taking that into consideration, it was a bad idea to start with.

Your point is well taken about sonic merits for separates IF (and a big if at that) you can get past the interface problems and the added expense of cables + space requirements. Separate boxes usually translates into one more interface problem.

Dcaudio thanks for articulating for what this audiophile has been feeling for a long time.

If the line stage injects noise into the phono stage, an outboard one can sound better. When all is shielded and isolated correctly, the reverse is true, as there are no interconnects involved between phono and line stages. Such is the case with the CTC Blowtorch: those who have compared an outboard Vendetta phono stage (latest tweaked version, of which there are but a handful, including mine) going into a Blowtorch line stage against a Blowtorch with the slightly updated optional Vendetta built in universally report that the latter is better. When the Rev. II Vendetta comes out perhaps by the end of the year (uncertain) it will be as an outboard phono stage, although it will be available as an internal option for the Blowtorch, which is what I plan to do and sell my outboard unit. For what it's worth, the S/N ratio on the Vendetta is at least 40 dB better than that $29k unit MF seemed to like :) ...

Brian Walsh

Thanks for the responses so far. Let me give you some background to why I think this is an important issue. I believe (right or wrong) that the phono section is the hardest part to get right in a preamp. I am also a strong believer that analog is still better than CD and the new formats. At least my analog set-up is better than my SACD player. Maybe if I spent $ 10,000 on the SACD (which is hard to do in a technology that improves so fast)it would be at the same level as my analog setup. However, as I am looking at replacing my current pre-amp I am finding that are virually no state of the art phono/line preamps that could be my pre-am,p for the next ten years. That is at least my ambition that it will last a while when I purchase a new unit.

Dcaudio-

I am looking at replacing my current pre-amp (phono & line)for the next ten years

I've been in the same boat. Maybe a solution is, phono + volume control for the rest??? I.e. are you sure the active line's extra db are absolutely necessary??? In a similar vein, some "sota" pres such as Blowtorch mentioned above, provide 6-8 (?) db signal amplification... it's not as if their designers skimp on the issue, surely:)

OTOH as to phono being difficult: While load issues at the phono equalising stage & the various amplification stages *are* tricky, the actual riaa curve is not that difficult to implement (and I'm no "seasoned" diyer, either etc). Rather, it's an expensive undertaking. LCR phonos are very nice -- but finding the right values (think: coils, for example) & matching the components (otherwise, there goes your riaa curve) is beastly. But it's doable -- at a price! Look at the wavac, vendetta, aesthetix, etc riaa's: expensive, but probably good enough to keep one happy 10+ years!

On subject and IMO, it has been said before: there is a MARKET for separates; why not tap it??? I.e. there are TWO products to sell, where before there was only one. Unfortunately, there are also two cases ($$$) two PS instead of one beafed up one ($$), etc. And the cable people make a little extra. I'm not ranting, there are people who don't use phono hence don't want to pay for the extra circuitry. So, pro & con arguments abound!

Dcaudio,

I was in the same position as you are about two years ago. I went with a CAT Ultimate which is one of the very few choices left. If you want a pre amp with a phono stage I don't believe it gets any better than the CAT.

The CAT has three drawbacks. First, the volume control doesn't give you enough choices. You can live with it, but there is to much variation from from one step to the next. The power suppy is hard wired to the control unit. It's a major logistical pain. Finally, the CAT Ultimate isn't on the romantic side of neutral. It doesn't have excessive mid range bloom like some other tube pre amps do. This may or may not be a drawback, it simply depends on your sonic preference. In my case the CAT Ultimate, despite it's quirks, sounds so good it's going to be with me a very long time