Learsfool, Rok has contributed more to this thread than you, Frogman, and Schubert combined; and we could do without your twice a year negative comments.
Frogman, this thread was going just fine until you changed it from a musical thread to a political thread; that ran all the best jazz contributors away. While there were not that many of them in the first place, they made good regular contributions; but no way were they going to waste their time and knowledge in a political fight.
Learsfool, I grew up with professional jazz musicians from childhood, I hung-out with jazz musicians, one of my friends was a professional jazz musician who could improvise like you wouldn't believe; none of them ever talked music to me; what for? I'm not a musician. When my friend, the professional jazz musician lived with me; our conversations were about his life as a professional jazz musician, or "Where can you get a good bowl of chili"
My best friend's brother went to "Julee-ard", and when he practiced on the piano, the next door neighbor came over to watch, after he finished, the neighbor could repeat everything he practiced. Brother went on to get his degree from "Julee-ard", and became a music teacher, while the neighbor became a professional jazz musician who I saw perform frequently, he was hot. The last time my friend heard from his brother, he was somewhere in Spain (hard to locate). If you want to be financially successful, get a degree from "Julee-ard"; but if you want to be a jazz musician, just go out and do it; either you got it or you don't.
Miles Davis did not graduate from "Julee-ard", he attended for a hot minute until he found Charles "Yardbird" Parker. When Jazz meets classical, it's real light weight; while it can be good music; it's not deep in the groove from which it originated.
Classical people are down right funny when they speak of "jazz improvisation"; they say so many things that they didn't know they said.
Enjoy the music.