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Upgrade Opinions, Thorens vs VPI

I'm looking to possibly upgrade to a better turntable.

My current setup is a Thorens TD166 MKII with the original tp11 tonearm. The table has a few mods including a solid cherry plinth and birch bottom with sorbothane feet. It also came with the 10mm spindle bearing, same one used on the TD160.

Amp: Rogue audio Sphinx 
Preamp: MM preamp built into the Sphinx
Cartidge: Shure M97xe with SAS stylus
Speakers: Monitor Audio Silver 8

The components listed above are my recent upgrades. I now think my table is due for an upgrade. 

I am considering installing a Jelco SA750D tonearm on my Thorens, since the tonearm is likely the weakest performing part of the table, or going with a completely new table.

I am considering the following tables:

Rega Planar 3 (possibly not a big leap?)

Rega RP8

VPI Classic 1 

Acoustic Signature Wow XL with Rega arm.

I am leaning toward the VPI, partly because I really like its look, but I do want the best sounding table under $3000 (subjective I know). Overall, I'm pleased with the current sound from my Thorens, so maybe the best bang for my buck would be a new tonearm. Some members have claimed that a Debut Carbon will blow the doors of a TD166, but in my personal experience, it's the opposite. So I'm thinking I'd probably need to spend over 1K for a real sonic upgrade over my Thorens.

Anyone have experience with VPI tables versus Thorens TD16X series? Any advice is welcome.
helomech
helomech OP
766 posts
 
Thanks Mat!
raymonda
847 posts
 
Without the tonearm upgrade on the Thorens the VPI will wipe it clean. The single biggest improvement I had when I tricked out my 166 was a change from the stock arm to a Rega. That coupled with everything else I did made in one great sounding table. That doesn't mean it would sound better than a VPI Classic, though.

I would be totally happy with the VPI and I think you will be, too.
helomech OP
766 posts
 
I don't imagine the Classic will be sent back, but I think I'll likely keep the Thorens anyway and eventually it will get the Jelco arm, and end up in my second system. The Thorens paired well with my Epos Epics and Yamaha amp. 

My Pioneer will likely be sold, because even though its performance is great for the price, it doesn't have that belt drive "soul." 

So now I'll hijack my own thread and ask for cart recommendations for the Classic. 

I am leaning toward a Dynavector 10x5 since it's HOMC.

 I really do like the Phono stage in my Sphinx. Though I don't hold Stereophile reviews in real high esteem, they did describe the Sphinx's phono stage as "excellent." I'm weary about spending a huge sum (1k for my means) on a new phono stage for only a slight improvement. So for now, I'd like to stick with HOMC or MM carts.

I can confidently claim that my M97xe with SAS was definitely not the weak link in my Thorens set up. I wouldn't be surprised if anything in the  $500 range would be a lateral move. 

I also have a Clearaudio V2 MM, modded with a shibata stylus. I find it sounds too similar to digital, somewhat clinical.

This hobby kills the wallet, my girlfriend thinks I'm insane. 
tablejockey
743 posts
 
Great table choice Helomech,

I'm jealous. That is a great table for the money.
If you get the tweak bug, brass footers and a 4" maple slab are the finishing touches on my Classic. As far as a sonic improvements, I'm not sure if it's just psychological, but it sure looks nicer(i thought the stock feet were the weakpoint)

Consider the Phoenix controller if you haven't yet.

Read the threads on the Audio Technica ART 9. It has reached cult status.
Not cheap($1200) but not ridiculous expensive considering the performance.
I really enjoy mine. It even has HW's approval.
Experienced listeners compare the ART9 with super carts.


I have used other 1K carts-Benz Micro Glider & Sumiko Blackbird. Both excellent carts, but the ART9 is closer to the middle(neutral) 
Subjective, like everything else. I don't buy into the "use this cart for this type of music" I haven't read any negative user reviews on the ART9.Fabulous cart!

helomech OP
766 posts
 
Tablejockey,

I think the Classic version I ordered has the DC controlled motor you mentioned earlier, so I won't be able to use a Phoenix, though apparently VPI makes something called an ADS speed controller that will work. It's not cheap. 

I've noticed with my Music Hall Cruise Control that my ears can't pick up speed changes around +/- 0.2. 

Maybe the controller helps with transients, but I would think a DC controlled motor and an 18 lb platter probably mitigates most of those issues.

I will probably wear out my current budget cartridges while I save for a cartridge like the one you mentioned. 

Another tempting route is the Ortofon 2M black, which are selling for about $500 on FleaBay. I wasn't too impressed with the Ortofon 2M red, haven't heard any of the others in that lineup. 
 I think I like cartridges with a bit of color in their sound, which is why I find the Clearaudio a bit bland.
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