O-10, all that you posted re Urbie Green is true. He is a great player and one who could play in any setting. Not really a stylistic innovator, but definitely one who pushed the envelope as far as what what possible to do on the trombone; an instrument that puts certain technical limitations on the player due to the absence of keys or valves.
JJ Johnson, on the other hand, was definitely a stylistic innovator who pushed trombone playing's harmonic reach into the realm of trumpet and saxophone players with a more modern rhythmic style and grasp of harmonic language. This is apparent in this clip which also features the mentioned Al Grey; another great player, but one for whom the technical limitations of the instrument are still obvious. As great as his playing was, in Grey's improvisations one can hear much more of a swing (as opposed to bebop) approach to improvisation and a reliance on "effects" such as glissandos (slides) and the use of a mute which are all throwbacks to his Count Basie days and, reaching further back, the role of the trombone in early jazz or Dixieland. This is certainly not a criticism as his playing was certainly very exciting, but it is obvious that he "generalizes" the chord changes of the tune while JJ makes each chord change obvious and musically logical. The rhythmic feel of each is also worth noting with Grey playing with an upbeat closer to the downbeat which gives the playing a jauntier and, arguably, less relaxed feeling; all throwbacks to a less modern style.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xuDtYLSlwgM
One of my favorites has always been Slide Hampton. A modern player with an advanced harmonic language but whose tone always says "trombone!", being robust without sounding like a lower pitched trumpet.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLxpFcEqKLShkNXTwVII-KCS10cZ4PuaP3&v=VxF_6MKiuTA
Here he is with another great; Bill Watrous (first solo) who took the trombone's technical reach even further. Not long ago it was unthinkable that a trombone player might be able to play with that kind of technical facility and speed which obviously lends itself well to bebop, but requires the player to play more lightly; arguably making the instrument lose some of its characteristic growl.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDj3k6k8mRw
JJ Johnson, on the other hand, was definitely a stylistic innovator who pushed trombone playing's harmonic reach into the realm of trumpet and saxophone players with a more modern rhythmic style and grasp of harmonic language. This is apparent in this clip which also features the mentioned Al Grey; another great player, but one for whom the technical limitations of the instrument are still obvious. As great as his playing was, in Grey's improvisations one can hear much more of a swing (as opposed to bebop) approach to improvisation and a reliance on "effects" such as glissandos (slides) and the use of a mute which are all throwbacks to his Count Basie days and, reaching further back, the role of the trombone in early jazz or Dixieland. This is certainly not a criticism as his playing was certainly very exciting, but it is obvious that he "generalizes" the chord changes of the tune while JJ makes each chord change obvious and musically logical. The rhythmic feel of each is also worth noting with Grey playing with an upbeat closer to the downbeat which gives the playing a jauntier and, arguably, less relaxed feeling; all throwbacks to a less modern style.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xuDtYLSlwgM
One of my favorites has always been Slide Hampton. A modern player with an advanced harmonic language but whose tone always says "trombone!", being robust without sounding like a lower pitched trumpet.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLxpFcEqKLShkNXTwVII-KCS10cZ4PuaP3&v=VxF_6MKiuTA
Here he is with another great; Bill Watrous (first solo) who took the trombone's technical reach even further. Not long ago it was unthinkable that a trombone player might be able to play with that kind of technical facility and speed which obviously lends itself well to bebop, but requires the player to play more lightly; arguably making the instrument lose some of its characteristic growl.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hDj3k6k8mRw