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Experimenting with reversing polarity to speakers

Using a single pair of Clear Day double shotguns terminated with bananas feeding Totem Forest speakers. Am using Audioquest’s diagonal connection recommendation for bi-wireable speakers (see page 4 at link below;

"Using Full Range Cables On BiWire Capable Speakers"). Jumpers are also Clear Day wire.

http://www.audioquest.com/resource_tools/LearningMods/UndrstndgBiWr.pdf

Came across some comments on the web about experimenting with reversing the polarity of speaker cables at BOTH speakers...i.e., connecting red to negative and black to positive. Am NOT talking one speaker out of phase w/respect to the other. Both speakers are in phase with one another.

Having made the change, I did think stage depth immediately increased and imaging focus was improved. The improvement was on the order of installing better cabling, I’d say. I am NOT asking for explanations for the effect. I started the thread merely to suggest an "experiment" to those that might not have considered it before.
Cheap fun.

This topic has been discussed previously on A’gon and EXTENSIVELY in the 2010 thread below:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/polarity-mystery-can-you-help-me-solve-it?highlight=sound%2Bi...

I readily admit it could be placebo (i.e., my imagination). Another well-regarded explanation relates to countering the effects of "out of phase recordings" (See Clark Johnson’s, The Wood Effect discussed at length on the Steve Hoffman forum and elsewhere). BUT the effect does seem to me to persist across multiple recordings (listening to various ripped CDs played off hard drive through Aries Mini>>Gungnir DAC>>Preamp>>Amp).

I’m inclined to think it’s related to some kind of room interaction and distance to listening point. More listening is needed to decide how consistent the benefit is. Of course, whatever the reason for it, the proof of it being a real improvement will be switching back to "proper" polarity after a few days and hearing a degradation in sound quality.

Best regards.


128x128ghosthouse
frogman
4,637 posts
 
Don’t sell your ears short, Ghosthouse; and trust what you hear. As many listeners know, getting the phase setting correct when using subwoofers can make a very audible and substantial difference in the quality of the bass response. I use a pair of REL Storm III subs in my system and getting the phase setting correct makes a very big difference. With the "incorrect" phase setting the bass sounds as if it’s being sucked in as opposed to being pushed out (think whistling both ways); but, the amazing thing to me is that the most important difference (for me) is not in the bass region but in the areas of image focus and expansiveness of the soundstage even when there is little or no obvious music content in the bass range. While I realize that this is, in great part, a function of getting the phase of the sub correct relative to the phase of the main speakers, I can’t help but wonder if there is more to the story than meets the eye (ear) and if perhaps things like size of the listening room, positioning of speakers and distance to listening chair are all things that interact with the phase characteristics of the bass response of full range speakers which, in turn, affect things like image focus and soundstaging. Would love to get Ralph’s and others’ thoughts on this.

Happy New Year!
ghosthouse's avatar
ghosthouse OP
3,718 posts
 
Thanks for the input frogman (and encouragement). I have definitely grown in confidence about my "aural judgement" over the last decade. I’m not doubting what I hear relative to the benefit of a polarity reversal on the DAC chain. BUT using the CDP, that benefit is not as apparent. Polarity can affect phase though they aren’t identical things. I very much agree with you about the importance of phase "matching". I did in fact take some time to ensure a proper phase setting on the subs.

At this point in time, I believe normal polarity amp to speakers is best for direct CD/SACD playback in my room. Reversed polarity seems best for streamer/DAC playback - my primary listening source. A bit mystifying as to the "why" but I was again today struck by how improved general SQ appears to be with that reversal when listening to music from the Aries Mini.

I do completely agree with your observations about the surprising benefit of properly set up subs being greater than "more/deeper bass". AND those improvements, in my set up at least, cannot be attributed to "unloading" the main amp of lower frequency duty by limiting the main speakers low range performance with the sub’s crossover. I run my floor standers full range...sort of in parallel with the subs.   Even though the subs are coming in at 80-100 Hz, the resulting sound at much higher frequencies appears to be affected and for the better.  Addition of the subs really has been "transformative".

steakster
720 posts
 
Years ago, it wasn’t uncommon for various high-end components to have phase/polarity switches built-in to the front control panel - as well as to the wireless remote. Good ears could hear the difference As Atmasphere stated, it’s a 50/50 shot as to which is which. Most likely, there are multiple flip/flops of phase within a single recording - when mixed down from various sources. Some of the tracks might have been imported from other recording studios, venues, etc. Most listeners can’t discern the difference anyway. For those who can, is it really worth the effort to get out of the chair a couples of times for each new song to determine the setting? +1 It really is nice when a sub is dialed in to the rest of the system.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
What makes the whole polarity issue almost moot is the fact that most CDs are not in the correct absolute polarity to begin with. There are no standards for polarity in the industry so you get what you get. According to the Polarity Pundit G. Louis, around 90% of CDs are in reverse polarity right out of the box, including most audiophile recordings. In fact, ironically, the sound that reaches the listener's ear in a system that has been determined to be in the correct absolute polarity will be almost always in reverse polarity since most CDs are reverse polarity. As I recall LPs suffer the same fate as CDs in terms of polarity but not to the same degree.
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
4,908 posts
 
To expound on Geoff's good point, another fact making absolute polarity moot is that the signal on each track of a recording made on a multi-track recorder may or may not be in the same polarity as any other. That’s one reason many recordings bear no semblance whatsoever to live music. Listen to Dwight Twilley's first solo album, or Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers first. They were both recorded at Shelter Studio in Hollywood, by two of the most incompetent engineers ever let loose in a studio---Max and Noah, whoever they are (were). Severe phasing problems on both albums---the sound actually "swirls" around.
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