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Martin Logan speakers

Are Martin Logan speakers still considered to be high quality speakers?   (I have an opportunity to buy a used pair of Vistas)   I have an old Audio Research VT130 amplifier.    Would it be a good fit with the Martin Logans?  If not, what would be better, but not outrageously expensive?   
jcder
lowtubes
29 posts
 
I think that when people start talking about “enough power” as a issue to whether an amp is going to sound good on a speaker or if more power is needed, they really don’t have much experience in hifi audio. The only reason one needs more power is if the amp is running out of power while playing music. Aside from that, no one can really tell you what amp is going to sound best in your particular setup/room. There can be recommendations but ultimately you have to find what amp works well for you. I think it is a silly question to ask if ML’s are still considered good speakers. ML’s are great speakers! One of the most desired sounds in Hong Kong is the older Monolith ML with Conrad Johnson Premier One tube amp. I own the Request and have tried many amps on them. I like the way a really good powerful EL34 amp sounds on my ML’s but for my setup/room, I found a Class A 50watt Threshold to be the best match. 
lowtubes
29 posts
 
Just want to add something else, I have no idea what people are saying about a small sweet spot with the ML’s. I have a huge sweet spot with mine. I own several speakers and the only speaker that gives me a narrow window where I have to put my head to hear into the music is my very large Magnepan’s. I have not experienced this issue with my Request ML’s. 
tomcy6's avatar
tomcy6
1,368 posts
 
I don’t get what people mean when they say the woofer response lags behind the panel so badly. In Stereophile’s review of the Montis the step response of the woofer lags behind the panel by 1.7 milliseconds. This is a greater lag than many cone speakers but can people really distinguish a 1.7 millisecond response lag from a 1 millisecond response lag? Live music must sound very disjointed to people who can.

Another reason I like MLs is the way the music is totally unattached to the speakers. It would be hard for me to give this up.
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
4,908 posts
 

I don’t know if it’s true in the case of ML’s ESL panels and their dynamic woofers, but the perception that the woofer in a hybrid speaker isn’t as fast as it’s panels is often more a case of the woofer not "stopping" when the panels do, rather than lagging behind them on the signal’s leading edge---it’s rise time. Dynamic woofers tend to "overshoot", the moving mass of their cones compelling them to keep moving once they have started, and not stopping when they get back to their undriven/"at rest" position, but travelling a little past it, and then finally back their center position. That phenomenon of driver performance is called settling time.

To cure that fault, Richard Vandersteen uses feed-forward in his subs---sending a pre-distorted signal to the woofers, the distortion a mirror image (out-of-phase) signal to counteract and compensate for the known imperfect behavior of his woofer drivers.

Peter Ding of Rythmik Audio used the more common servo-feedback to control the behavior of his sub woofers, though the servo is of a new, patented design. Did you know the performance characteristics and behavior of dynamic woofers, no matter the cost, changes as the materials in the woofer’s construction rise in temperature during use? The Rythmik servo system compensates for the change in voice coil temperature resulting from high excursion, one example of it’s benefits. The Rythmik subs are perceived to "stop on a dime". No boom, no bloat, no fat. One of the few subs perceived as being "fast" enough for use with planar speakers.

And then there is the GR Research/Rythmik Audio OB/Dipole Sub, the only one in the world to combine the benefits of servo-feedback design (one of Brian Ding’s areas of expertise) with those of open baffle dipole speakers (GR Research’s Danny Richie’s specialty). THE best sub for music reproduction currently available, and it operates up to 300Hz, so it can be used not only a sub, but also as a woofer.

tomcy6's avatar
tomcy6
1,368 posts
 
Here’s what ML says about the Montis’ woofer:

" Montis uses an extremely precise 24-bit Vojtko™ DSP engine in conjunction with a powerful 200-watt class-D amplifier to deliver a stunningly detailed low-frequency performance reaching down to 29Hz—uncommon in cabinets this compact"

I know that ML speakers do not have the tightest bass available, I have owned speakers with tighter bass, but ML is aware of the problem of the bass lagging and overshooting and work to optimize their bass response. Other manufacturers may do it better, but I still don’t hear an awful, lagging or bloated bass from MLs. I find the bass control to be very respectable and tuneful. Not at all "one note." I do not have golden ears and I’m not a bass freak, though.
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