Horns: Why don't they image well?


Anyone have a theory?

\\\\\\
o| O O |o
  \ . ^ . /
erik_squires

@gawdbless and @d2girls, you might also want to check out Room 542, where Peter Noerbaek (of PBN) will be showing his M2!5’s... same horn and compression driver as the JBL M2, but TWO of the M2’s woofers, if I understand correctly. My guess is that speaker will do a LOT of things very well. Assuming I get a chance to sneak away at some point, probably Sunday morning, THAT’s the room I’m heading for.

Also I plan to hit the Classic Audio Reproductions room, a perennial favorite of mine, another big and actually beautiful horn speaker with amazing field-coil drivers. 

D2girls, you’ve got JBL 4367’s, right? So you are done with speaker shopping. But if you don’t mind, I’d love to get your brutally honest opinion of how my system compares.

And in my comments above where I was talking about reflections in horns, I forgot about this latest generation of JBL horns. I think their unusual internal geometry is specifically aimed at making sure internal reflections are directed away from the listener, and I bet they do an excellent job of it.

Duke

Horns: Why don’t they image well?

Horns can image very well, I find - certainly going by my own all-horn speakers. Perhaps there’s an aspect of horn speakers imaging differently compared to direct radiating speakers due to their dispersion characteristics of directivity, and hereby limiting to an extend early reflections and room interaction as a whole (i.e.: a relatively bigger share of direct sound than reflected ditto), but as perceived sound I find it makes less sense with such a distinction. Whether horn speakers in general (and they span a variety of iterations be that from mostly hybrids to the more rare all-horns and everything in between that, frankly, makes broad statement to claim one or the other seem somewhat befuddling) are to be found to image badly should fall back on one’s (perhaps lack of) experience with horn speakers or be a matter of mere preference due to "something other" about the way they image, that may even have one believe they don’t image at all.

Another aspect comes to mind, and that’s the typically more pronounced sensation of solidity or density and presence in the sound of quite a few horn speakers, that can be perceived as less airy and more as a quality (to some at least) as music happening in-the-room kind of way, that deters from a more a laid-back, "thinner," behind-the-plane-of-the-speakers and at-arms-length sound that may "stimulate" the sensation of imaging. I find the latter quality beguiling, but ultimately prefer the former as the more uninhibited and natural/live presentation.

Many ways to skin your cat, really. JMLC horns can sound wonderful, OSWG’s I’ve owned (and yes, they image very well), and currently, for the last almost three years I’ve used horn speakers with Tractrix mids and tweeter horns (and folded bass horn) which throw a very convincing stage in front of me (they’re present sounding; not in-your-face). Never heard conical horns the likes of OMA, but in any event I find singling out particular horn geometries as "the best" to be more of a marketing ploy to boost business than a marker of the diversity of great sounding horns out there.
Higher speaker SPLs mean worse room acoustics problems. I.e., comb filter effects (not good for imaging).
Perhaps some horns don’t image well but the Avantgarde Trio’s I heard some 20 years ago imaged spookily well off an old vinyl playing a Jazz combo.

The only other speaker that came close for sheer imagery alone was an old Quad 57 channeling some male opera voice. The tightness of the image was uncanny. I bought them, and they were just average on Springsteen. They needed space and I didn’t have any.

Is it fair to say that (as well as a suitable recording) plenty of space behind the speaker is essential for good imagery?