Best MM?

dEAR @orpheus10 : 1k FOR THAT nos VINTAGE 981 is not very high comparing with the today really high prices as the one example in the Grado Epoch that could or not be in true justified by its quality level performance.

Btw, if I remember Stanton/Pickering had its own vintage Epoch models. Of course only the name.

I own 2-3 vintage Grado cartridges and all sounds good and I have no doubt that the Epoch/Aeon are really good but for 12K I will love to put one of my ADC 26/27 samples " face to face ".

At the end the cartridge main motor foundation as a transducer just did not changed at all, still are the same as 50 years ago. We discuss reciently about with other gentlemans in the thread: Diamond is a man's friend? ( or something like this. ).

R.

@vortrex

Why do some of the eBay Victor X-1ii say titanium cantilever instead of beryllium?

X-1II and X-1IIE are two different models, two completely different cantilevers and also completely different diamonds.

X-1II is Beryllium/Shibata (clear plastic)
X-1IIe is Titanium/Elliptical (orange plastic)

This is Beryllium cantilever with Nude Shibata stylus tip for X-1II

This is Titanium cantilever with Nude Elliptical tip. This link must be used for correct info about japanese cartridges (not a vinylengine where normally i can see a lot of missinformation). X-1IIe has a titanium tapered pipe cantilever.

I’ve been able to find some NOS styli for Victor "X" series of cartridges, but they are very rare @dhcod

Jukeboxes in the late 50's and early 60's was the "high end" of that time. The reason they had the best cartridges, and 45 RPM turntables was quite simple; they pulled quarters out of patrons pockets in bars. No one I knew, nor did I have anything to compare to those jukeboxes.

Gangsters fought wars over whose jukebox was going to be where. The jukebox made more money than the lounge. This was because of the quality of the sound they delivered; they were made of the finest tube electronics, and the very top cartridges of that time.


  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jukebox


This is the best I could find, and it doesn't even give a hint as to the quality of jukeboxes in the city; the nuances, and the subtlety of those nuances that made this tune what it was, are nearly impossible to duplicate. Maybe I'm there, maybe not; I don't have a late 50's jukebox to compare.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHold6ylvEM



Personnel
Ray Charles – piano, electric piano, alto saxophone ("Soul Brothers')
Milt Jackson – vibraphone, piano ("Soul Brothers," "How Long, How Long Blues," guitar ("Bag's Guitar Blues")
Billy Mitchell – tenor saxophone
Connie Kay – drums
Oscar Pettiford – bass
Skeeter Best – guitar
Kenny Burrell – guitar


Each one of those artists was a star in his own right; what we are talking about is the comparison with this music from the jukebox, with listening to those artists live.

That was Skeeter Best on guitar.

Let me repeat; it's the nuances, and the subtlety of the nuances that are so difficult to reproduce; everything in the record chain has to be perfect.

There’s something I left out; could those cartridges reproduce the "sound stage" I now demand?

As I recall, the cartridges were the top of the line Stanton and Pickering.

Let us put things in their proper perspective; this stuff was a lot cheaper in 1960, and it was what the average person played music on; that's why jukeboxes pulled in so many quarters.


    https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=40994


    https://www.turntableneedles.com/Record_Player_Phono_Cartridges-Ceramic


This was the high end in 1960, and few people owned Fisher; my rig was Emerson.


      http://www.fisherconsoles.com/brochures,%20catalogs/1960%20Fisher%20Catalog.pdf


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_Electronics


This was a lot of money at that time, and you got a lot of audio for your money.


  http://www.fisherconsoles.com/president%20IV.html


I read some comments on "consoles" and most of them had no idea what they were talking about; Magnavox was good while Fisher and Grundig were very good.

Some "brandless" consoles were just beautiful furniture.



      https://www.google.com/search?q=magnavox+console+1960&oq=magnavox+console+1960&aqs=chrome..6...


Grundig Majestic from Germany was tops;


        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundig



            https://www.google.com/search?q=Grundig+majestic+console&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&f...:



These consoles produced some of the most beautiful music; it soothed me to sleep and I had sweet dreams. I believe the cabinet and the wood played a big part in the sound.


While all that equipment sounded good at the time, the only thing that comes remotely close to my moderate "high end rig" is the jukebox, and we are talking strictly "mono"


"So much for the good old days"