If you want to compare specs then look at Victor X-1II
JVC/Victor has established a new and dynamic relationship between the cartridge design and quality by investing the Pulse-Trian Analytical Method. The X-1 was the first product designed with new method, the X1-II is an improved version featured a wide range, clear definition and transparent tone quality. The X1-II faithfully reproduce silence, however transient, between notes and add tremendous presence to the reproduction of music. Because of the low-mass moving structure, the response is extended to 60kHz. 0.15mm Square Shibata Stylus: Shibata stylus shape of the JVC Victor X-1II cartridge distinguishes itself by having the necessary small contact surface at the horizontal level for playback of the ultra-high frequencies found on CD-4 quadraphonic records. At the vertical level, the special shape of the stylus gives a wider contact surface than is the case with either spherical or elliptical styli. Various cartridge manufacturers have been inspired by the Shibata shape and now produce very expensive cartridges with stylus shapes that give the same advantages as the Shibata. These have names such as bi-elliptical, pramanic, quadrahedral, hyperbolic, pathemax, and Fine Line. Although CD-4 and other quadraphonic systems never really caught on with consumers, they have helped to speed up the development of stylus types that improve playback of stereo records in the form of a more precise treble reproduction, lower distortion, and less record wear.
Beryllium Cantilever:
The cantilever is made of beryllium, a metal that is far lighter and stronger than widely-used aluminium or titanium. It has greater velocity of sound propagation, and it’s flat response extends into the super high frequency range. Density (gr/cm): 1.84 Beryllium / 2.69 Aluminum / 4.54 Titanium Young Modulus (kg/mm): 28,000 Beryllium / 7,400 Aluminum / 11,000 Titanium Velocity Of Sound Propagation (m/sec): 12,600 Beryllium / 6,420 Aluminum / 5,990 Titanium One Point Suspension: A very thin wire, mounted to the center-hold bushing, suspends the moving structure. Since this design clearly defines the fulcrum of the moving structure, intermodulation distortion is reduced. Samarium Cobalt Magnet: JVC Victor has used samarium cobalt for the magnet piece, a material that has low specific gravity and high energy product. Thanks to this new alloy formation, the moving structure is lightweight, and offers improving tracking ability and stable output. Laminated Core Pole Pieces: Pole pieces are made of laminated core permalloy. This superior construction leads to improved frequency response. Loss of information in the super high frequencies, often experienced with high-impedance MM-type cartridges, is AVOIDED! Pulse-Train Analytical Method: A JVC-developed method used for measuring and analyzing the hitherto unmeasurable group-delay and phase characteristics of a transducer (speaker, cartridge, etc.) with the assistance of a specially-cut record containing pulsive signals, coupled with a computer data processing system. This new analytical method is largely responsible for the exceptional tonal performance of the X1II as it has helped JVC find ways to cope with transient distortion and group delay distortion. It showed that a cartridge should be lightweight, which in turn has led to the use of a shortened cantilever made of superlight beryllium and a one point suspension in the X1II. Specifications Victor X1II: Type: moving magnet Stylus: (DT-X2) 0.15mm Shibata diamond tip. Frequency response: 10 to 60,000HzTracking Force: 1,5g (+/- 0,2g) Dynamic Compliance (@100Hz): 12cu Output: more 3.0mV (1kHz, 5cm/sec) Channel balance: less than 1.0dB Channel separation: more than 25dB Impedance: 2.2 kOhms (1kHz) Load: 47 to 100 kohms Weight: 7.5g
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I have received my Induced Magnet ADC high-compliance cartridge not so long ago. This is New Old Stock of the ADC TRX-2, but i have not tried it yet :) I hope it’s much better than ADC Astrion which i had NOS, but didn’t liked. I just put together some facts about ADC and thair lastest TRX series. I’m sure someone will find it interesting. Audio innovator Peter Pritchard founded ADC (Audio Dynamics Corporation) in USA in the early 1960’s. Since that day the ADC was a manufacturer of very high performances magnetic phono cartridges. ADC pickups were notable for their extremely high compliance and low tracking forces. They were all based on his "induced magnet" principle, which derived from the older GE variable-reluctance cartridges that had been game-changers for affordable magnetic phono pick-ups in the 1950s. GE’s patent, filed May 2, 1960, acknowledges Peter Ernest Pritchard as the inventor. Later, a very successful speaker line produced locally in New Milford. ADC also made lighweight tonearms. Mr.Pritchard sold ADC in the late 1970s and began producing the successful Sonus line of phono pickups. However, the ADC (Audio Dynamics Corporation) under a new ownership continued making High-End cartridges. To develop ADC sound the company hired Nakansuka San from Japan, now he’s the owner of ultra high-end brand ZYX. You may think that ZYX is this brave new phono cartridge manufacturer, but its founder and chief designer, Hisayoshi Nakatsuka, is far from being a newcomer. Nakatsuka San has been working for Namiki (there he managed the OEM cartridge business for several manufacturers), Accuphase, Adcom, Ortofon ... Back in the 70’s top of the line ADC TRX series was designed by Nakatsuka San (ZYX). Flagship models ADC TRX-2 with Sapphire cantilever and Vital II nude diamond is one of the best ADC cartridge designed under new ownership. The tri-pole Induced Magnetic System has a unique internal construction featuring a three-pole armature made of mu-metal. Its advantages include low-distortion tracing of stereo signals and consistently wide strereo separation across a wide frequency range. In its magnetic circuit a samarium cobalt magnet is used which, together with the 3-pole armature, forms an efficient induced magnet system. The tension wire, of special resin, helps define the fulcrum of the cantilever. In combination with a damper made of selected rubber, it provides the cartridge with higher compliance, better tracking and wider dynamic range. The cartridge body is fashioned from die-cast aluminum, and the stylus assembly is firmly fixed to the body by a screw so no part of the cartridge resonates or vibrates. This prevents sound coloration. The TRX-2 cantilever is a precision-made sapphire tube. Due to its excellent hardness and rigidity resonance is reduced to practically zero. The stylus tip is a nude diamond, featuring low mass and large contact area (ADC Vital III type PH LineContact 0.32 x 1.57 mil) for lower record wear. This is a wire suspension system to define the fulcrum and provide extended frequency response and low distortion at low tracking force. Specification of the ADC TRX-2 IM cartridge: Stylus type: nude PH line contact (vital III) Cantilever: sapphire tube Output voltage: 3mV Channel balance: within 0.5dB Channel separation (1kHz): more than 30dB Frequency response (+/-1.5dB): 20 to 30,000Hz Compliance: 40cu Impedance (1kHz): 3.0 kOhm DC Resistance: 960 Ohm Tracking force: 1.2g (+/- 0.2g) Load resistance: 47K ohms (Capacitance 275pF) Weight: 6.5g An old company address: BSR (USA) LTD. ADC Division Route 303 Blauvelt, N.Y. 10913. U.S.A. |
Something else?
Yes, something else |
The problem is that MM is out of fashion in the modern High-End world. You have to go back to the late 70s or mid 80s for the best MM which you can buy even NOS (unused) if you’re afraid of the used samples. Some vintage MM cartridges, especially NOS (New Old Stock), are better than any new MM/MI, and still cheaper. The advantages of the vintage MM from the 80s is unique cantilevers like hollow pipe Boron, Beryllium. Those cantilevers are not available anymore for any cartridge manufacturer today. Also some killer styli such as Stereohedron invented by Stanton is not available today. Some vintage MMs are high compliance cartridges, like the Grace F14 LC-OFC for example. Great tracker, but must be mated with light tonearms. You can’t go wrong with Grace LEVEL II (Boron/MicroRidge), Stanton 881/981 or CS100 top of the line vintage MM high compliance cartridges, they are superb! More universal mid compliance vintage MM are Victor and Audio-Technica for example. You can’t go wrong with Victor X-1II (Beryllium/Shibata) or AT-ML170 and 180 (Gold-plated Hollow Pipe Boron / MicroLine). All these cartridges made when MM was a KING! In the golden age of analog. Most of the modern MM are not even close, but normally twice the price compared to vintage MM carts. Up to you. What is your tonearm btw ? |
Would you ask someone who is the best girlfriend for you?
Try not replace a girlfried with a cartridge, this is the most important. And don't tell her how much you're willing to pay for a cartridge if it's more than $200 :) |
Budget, FYI, is up to $1500.
That's enough for some amazing and very rare MM cartridges from the 80s in NOS condition, why do you want modern production of MM in MC era ? The problem is that you will lose money on it (if you don't like them), while the NOS or even used vintage MM heritage is only raise up in value in time, never lose. |
@orpheus10
I would try a new cartridge every other day if I had the dough, but that's not the case.
Why not? But only if you really like to discover some amazing cartridges. Grado MI cartridges are good until you will find something better, it's always like that. At the moment the best Grado i've tried was Joseph Grado Signature TXZ, flagship model from the 80s. Here is a good documentary about Grado Lab |
@orpheus10 I never tried a Koetsu, i’ve heard that old Koetsu is terrible cartridge in term of buid quality and Garrott Brothers in Australia fixed many of them back in the days.
I’ve been using Grado for professional needs for decades on Technics turntable and tonearms. In High-End system only Joseph Grado Signature XTZ was close to my favorite carts.
Rock is not my music, but Jazz, Funk and Soul is my choice. However, i don’t believe a cartridge is made for certain genre of music.
My point is that there are many cartridges on the market, much more than current mafunacturers can offer, especially the MM/MI. So it’s not necessary to stick to the modern MM/MI from well known 5 manufacturers, there are many more amazing cartridges from the past (from the golden age of analog media). |
For the price of Goldring i would buy another Pickering XSV-3000 or Stanton 881s mkII with Stereohedron styli, those are killer carts if the budged is under $400. |
@inna
Chakster, which vintage cartridge would you recommend for me if you are familiar with Nottingham ?
PMed you |
Modern MM cartridges for $2000 indicates how much modern manufacturers (ClearAudio) would like to earn on the sales by using cartridge generator made by Audio-Technica. In fact, for a brand new MM, $2k is ridiculous price as the MM cartridges always were much cheaper than MC. And it should be cheaper, it’s different technology. Only in this crazy world where LOMC cost up to $15k the $2k MM looks cheaper, lol . It would be nice to explain in details which vintage MM/MI were beaten by that modern MM $2k cartridges ? I want to know the reference in MM category for the users of modern MM stuff. My reference is Audio-Technica AT-ML180, Stanton SC-100 WOS, Glanz MFG-61, Victor X-1II, Grace LEVEL II BR/MR and Pioneer PC-1000 mkII. In my opinion these cartridges are unbeatable by any modern MM and much more reasonable priced on the used market. All these are highly competitive with $5k modern LOMC. in my opinion. Again, in my opinion the real gems are on the vintage market. |
Stanton made so many cartridges for mass market, but i am talking about high-end models like Walter O. Stanton Signature CS-100 WOS (Sapphire coated cantilever and Stereohedron tip) or 980/981 series only. Walter Stanton believed to his dying day that NO moving coil cartridge could ever be any good. He even made super low output MM like MC! Stanton’s 980 LZS cartridge to be used in stereo systems which have high gain, low impedance MC inputs or use external head amps with inputs impedance of 100 Ohms or higher. Since the output of the 980 LZS cartridhe is .06 mv /cm/sec, 20 dB minimum of additional gain is required to step up the voltage to the level of the conventional MM cartridge. The 980 LZS features extremely low dynamic tip mass (resulting in rise time of 100 micro sec.), high compliance (30cu), replaceable stylus assembly designed with samarium cobalt magnet ans Stereohedron stylus tip. Read this interesting article first. Price for the brand new modern cartridges means nothing, just marketing. You can put $400 Pickering XSV-3000 or Stanton 881s mkII against any super expensive modern MC and then we will see what you like the most, despite the price difference in 10 times. Many of us has stuff to compare (vintage mm cartridges vs. modern mm or mc). P.S. Grado also made many cheap cartridges for mass market (nothing special), except some amazing top of the line models like Joseph Grado Signature XTZ, which i have and like a lot. I have not tried new wooned body Grados, but i have the one which was top of the line in the 80s (XTZ) handmade by the founder of the Grado himself (Joseph Grado, not John Grado who's his son). Joseph was proud about XTZ series. |
@vortrex If I was going to acquire one vintage MM to compare with the Audio Note IQ3, which would it be? It must be compatible with a Kuzma 4Point (13g) and be somewhat easy to find, preferably NOS. It can be a Victor X-1II, simply because it’s a mid compliance cartridge which is fine for Kuzma. Stanton, for example, is High Compliance and works best on lightmass tonearms in theory. |
@jollytinker
I always get stuck between my distrust for used cartridges, on the one hand, and the fact that NOS carts that have been sitting on a shelf for decades sound like a bad idea to me (dried up suspension rubber). There is something in between which is the best for you, it's a NOS cartridge checked by the seller whom you can trust. But personally i prefer NOS, they are highly collectible. I've had only 3 cartridges in 7 years with bad suspension and all of them weren't NOS. My personal experience with NOS is the best experience! |
@vortrex Why do some of the eBay Victor X-1ii say titanium cantilever instead of beryllium? X-1II and X-1IIE are two different models, two completely different cantilevers and also completely different diamonds. X-1II is Beryllium/Shibata (clear plastic) X-1IIe is Titanium/Elliptical (orange plastic) This is Beryllium cantilever with Nude Shibata stylus tip for X-1II This is Titanium cantilever with Nude Elliptical tip. This link must be used for correct info about japanese cartridges (not a vinylengine where normally i can see a lot of missinformation). X-1IIe has a titanium tapered pipe cantilever. I’ve been able to find some NOS styli for Victor "X" series of cartridges, but they are very rare @dhcod |
@orpheus10
this stuff was a lot cheaper in 1960, and it was what the average person played music on; that's why jukeboxes pulled in so many quarters.
I like music recorded and pressed in the 60s and 70s, some of those original records cost more than high-end euipment today. I have some very rare 45s, not all of them recorded quite good, some musicians recorded and released only 1 x 45 sigle and nothing else, not even LP, nothing. Some private press 45s only reached 300 copies. You can imagine how rare some of them today. But i don't play them on 60s equipment, i think from mid 70s to mid 80s some of the best cartridges were born and they are still unbeatable by most of th modern carts. |
@orpheus10
Possibly, a 15K cartridge does everything perfectly, but not a 1K cartridge
Are you hypnotized by reviewers or manufacturers ? Prices means nothing in the modern world of High-End, if you don’t have a reference among classic High-End cartridges you have no idea where do you going even with 15k budget, don’t let them fool you, there is NOTHING is the cartridge that cost $15k! The logic behind $15k pricing is not about fidelity at all and they are not better than many $1k cartridges. Also this thread is about MM cartridges, they are always cheaper than MC. The stylus is the most expensive part of MM cartidge. Some of the very best styli with exotic cantilevers cost under $1k max. |
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@orpheus10
Chakster, the cartridges on jukeboxes were quite visible, and that brush on the end of the Pickering cartridge was unforgettable. You are talking about $50 Stanton AL-500 and $50 Pickering XV-15. These cartridges are the lowest quality mass market Stanton/Pickering product. Actually those cartridges are so called "professional series". Durability is the key, not the sound quality. The fact that you have recognized Stanton/Pickering brush does not make them better. These carts works with high tracking force, the diamonds are not natural. This is very cheap basic product. The jukeboxes I'm talking about were in sophisticated lounges that also featured live entertainment. The same professionals that installed sound systems in high end salons, also installed them in these lounges. Evidently you have no idea how important the sound system and music was to a lounge.
Jukebox era is definitely not the 80s, but 50s. I don't know what are you trying to say, but Stanton high-end cartridges starts from 881 series and up to 891 series, they are not from the jukebox era, they are invented in the mid 70s - early 80s. Look at this Stanton catalog to see them all. Unlike the cheapest Stanton Al-500 (which is awful cartridge) the 981 series cost up to $800 today and considering the best Stanton ever made. This is high-end cartridge today and you can easily compare 981 series to the $3000 MC cartridges from whatever manufacturer today. If High-End system is an old Jukebox for you then our vision is completely different with all my respect to the 50s aesthetic. |
@frogman 1959 - First MC phono cartridge (Grado) This not the first MC phono cartridge, but first STEREO MC phono cartridge, an MC cartridge (MONO) invented by Ortofon in 1948. Anyway all those cartridges are garbage. You can also remember Gramophones and 78 rmp records, but it will be hard to argue that the best MM cartridges are all made in the 70s/80s and some of them are better than modern LOMC even if the price difference is x10 and not in favor of the LOMC. Grado holds patent for stereo MC, but all their cartridges are MI |
It doesn't matter, one of the best MM is still Audio-Technica AT-ML180 :)
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Sure, i like some LOMC, currently running Ortofon MC2000 with Gold Note phono stage. Very unusual cartridge, a high compliance MC with extremely low output, low impedance. This cartridge is hard to deal with, very critical about phono stage, wires etc. Sound quality is addictive. I've never tried XSV4000, but XSV3000 is a brother of the Stanton 881s (highly regarded in TAS mag back issue). It's $300-400 cartridge, amazing for the money, but not the best from Stanton/Pickering. My favorite Stanton CS-100 WOS is highly competitive with any LOMC, the sound of CS-100 WOS is seductive. The problem with any MC cartridges is re-tipping (imo). |
@lohanimal The X-1 series of Victor cartridges is great! This is the only NOS Victor X-1 i’ve been able to find. Some of them suffer from poor suspension condition, so you never know if unchecked. Stylus protector may cause resonance issues, it was removed later with X-1II series which i like the most and still have a NOS in the box. I like old Garrott p77, but never tried new. Stanton /Pickering top modeals are amazing. Low impedance and very very low output MM versions of Pickering XLZ-4500s or Stanton 980LZS are very interesting and can be connected to the MC input or Step-up. Totally forgotten Ortofon is M20FL Super (Nude Fine Line Diamond) impressed me a lot a few years ago. I don't have a cartridge, but got one NOS D20FL stylus in the box, hope to find a generator for it. |
@lewm
Orto M20 FL Super This is an old favorite, i have NOS FineLine stylus for this cartridge, but i don't have a generator anymore, one channel is missing, we opened up the cartridge and one super thin wire is broken, still can be soldered (i'm gonna try). |
@orpheus10 I was referring to the old Stantons and Pickerings that Chakster often speaks of; they were the best at that time, meaning the 50’s and 60’s. No, i’m talking about that huge steel needles for 78 rpm gramophones that we have to change after each side. Seriously, the best Stanton & Pickering made from the late ’70s to mid ’80s ONLY! Why you always come up with that ’50s stuff when i'm talking about Stanton? C’mon, i don’t use any cartridges made earlier than 1977. This is MM era if you want to know. If you like ’50s sound stick to the Ortofon SPU MC mono. |
@orpheus10
My point is; these new MM and MI cartridges can produce a holographic sound stage, and from the reviews I read, are comparable to the MC's, but less expensive. Unfortunately reviewers can't (or never want to) compare an old classic MM/MI from the 70s/80s to the new MM. |
@orpheus10 I was born in the 70s, so i missed that Shure and Empire, but re-discovered the best vintage MM/MI cartridges not so long ago after trying multi thousand MCs. Please look at this Stanton catalog, download it here Stanton 881s, 881s mkII, 980, 981 and finally CS-100 WOS this is all you need to know about Stanton, the rest is just crap. You can’t go wrong with any of these models, but prepare to pay $400-1000 for any of them in New Old Stock condition nowadays. Amazing MM cartridges with Stereohedron nude diamonds (one of the best stylus profile ever made). The Pickering models from XSV-3000 and higher numbers also comes with Stereohedron diamonds, same as Stanton, also amazing cartridges, same price range. All of them designed by Walter O. Stanton who passed away in 2001. He sold the company long time ago, it’s called now The Stanton Groud and only manufacture cheap gear and heap carts for professional market (djs and radiostations). No more Stereohedrom styli or anything good from that company under new ownerships. Why people are paying so much for rare Stanton/Pickering top models from the late 70s and early 80s? Because they are superb! |
@orpheus10 sorry, but i have to say that you don’t know what you’re talking about and you don’t even read what i have posted many times for you, professional Stanton is like professional Grado cheap models, nothing special indeed. Not sure if you ever heard about Grado DJ100i and Grado DJ200i designed for deejays today. Every respected company including Grace, Audio-Technica, Technics, Empire, Ortofon, Shure, Denon made professional series for deejays/radiostations etc. These carts are well known for durability, but not for the best sound quality, definitely not for audiophiles, they are cheap and affordable for anyone, normally under $150 , They are all comes with bonded spherical or elliptical styli (easy to replace for low cost).
But the Stanton Pickering models i have mentioned here as the reference are very expensive cartridges, designed for audiophiles, for critical listening sessions. Have you ever heard about Stereohedron stylus profile? This is very expensive stylus profile invented by Stanton (nude diamond).
I don’t understand why you always mixing together professional cartridges and hi-end cartridges. Two different world!
I have Joseph Grado Signature XTZ model considered the best Grado ever made, but Stanton top models are better cartridges. |
@orpheus10
Since there is no way we can compare the Stantons and Pickerings to the Grado I can compare the best Stanton, Pickering and Grado in my system everyday if i want to, believe it or not. |
Yes, it's from the 70's - early 80's. I'm still looking for their Dimension 5 model. |
@schubert ADC XLM checks in at 65x10 It’s probably STATIC compliance, not DYNAMIC this is why the figure is so high, you need to know dynamic compliance to choose the arm. |
@nandric There is nothing special about those cartridges if you will look at the specs and diamond/cantilever types. ADC 26 is very cheap cartridge from the 60’s, 25/27 designed before XLM series (which is crap too) IM type cartridge with the same standard as ADC - 25, equipped with standard elliptical needle only. By adopting a newly developed magnetic circuit, we have acquired broad band reproduction, light needle pressure and racing ability. The ADC - 25, ADC - 26, ADC - 27 and the ADC - X series have stylus compatibility respectively, and it is possible to upgrade by replacing the stylus. Model IM type cartridge frequency band 10 Hz to 24 kHz ± 2 dB output4.5 mV (5.5 cm / sec) Separation30 dB (50 Hz to 15 kHz) compliance50 × 10 -6 cm / dyne Tracking angle15 ° Impedance47 kΩ Tip0.3 x 0.7 mil (R-26) Stylus pressure0.5 g to 1.25 g Own weight 9 g ADC 27 is next model from the 60s/70s: IM type cartridge which aimed at cost reduction based on ADC - 25, 26. The magnet that was attached to the conventional stylus assembly is embedded in the body at the bottom of the assembly. In addition, a magnet yoke is installed in the assembly and it is made to be magnetized when it is set. As a result, the assembly can be easily inserted and removed, there is no excess or deficiency of insertion, and the magnetic force always holds the cantilever in the center. Because the main body of ADC - 27 is common design with ADC - 25, it is possible to use it the same way as ADC - 25 by adding stylus of R - 252 or R - 253. Model IM type cartridge frequency band 10 Hz to 22 kHz ± 2 dB output 4.5 mV (5.5 cm / sec) Separation 30 dB (50 Hz to 15 kHz) compliance 40 × 10 -6 cm / dyne Tracking angle15 ° Impedance 47 kΩ Tip 0.3 x 0.7 mil (R-27) Stylus pressure 0.5 g to 1.5 g Own weight 9 g |
@nandric the price for any ADC would never be higher than $200 today, there are plenty of them available everyday. The exception is for rare Astrion MM with Sapphire cantilever (but an average sound) and the latest TRX IM 1,2,3 series designed for them by Nakatsuka-San (now Zyx) with Titanium, Beryllium or Sapphire cantilevers (i know you got some of them). |
