The post, however inappropriate is a stern warning to stay away from the ever so temping grey market.
Counterfeit DL103?
I decided to finally see what all the DL103 fuss was about and try one in my office system. Bought one on USAM that was admittedly priced surprisingly low but I snagged it very soon after it went up and the photos showed a cart that looked exactly like every DL103 I've ever seen including the identifying sticker with serial number. So I figured the gods had smiled on me and left it at that.
When I finally got around to mounting it, I ran it through my Allnic AUT2000 step up tranny which I brought into the office from my home system while I'm waiting on some replacement tubes. Into the Allnic and then the MM stage of my Marantz integrated it sounded very lively but with a surprising amount of gain, so much so that it was annoying, got loud very soon after zero on the volume pot and WAY too loud pretty soon after that. Using the remote to adjust volume was a non-starter, had to do it by hand in the tiniest increments.
But, like I said, it sounded good, sparkly, a lot of detail. I also know the DL103 has a strange output impedance so I figured it wasn't mating well with the Allnic and didn't think about it.
A while ago I made a trade with a guy for some records and also got a Denon SUT from the 70s, a 310 that I believe was actually made for the 103 (when I took it from the guy I did so thinking eventually I'd get around to trying a 103). So I dug this out (bit of a project, couldn't remember where I put it) and brought it into the office. Now the 310 has a passthrough button so you can disengage the transformers if you choose. When I hooked it up I discovered that with the transformers engaged I still had way too much gain, and with them disengaged, well, the cart sounded good and loud.
So I put on a Shure m97xe, another cart I run here at the office. A-B'ing it against this cart purporting to be a DL-103 with the trannies disengaged I found that at the same volume setting on the Marantz the "DL103" played a little louder than the Shure.
And, as I'm sure most of you know at least vaguely... that ain't right. The m97xe has an output voltage of 4mv. A true DL103 has an output voltage of in the country of .3mv.
So... it's gotta be a fake right? There's nothing I'm missing here? It's not a bad sounding cart at all whatever it is, but it can't be a DL-103.
When I finally got around to mounting it, I ran it through my Allnic AUT2000 step up tranny which I brought into the office from my home system while I'm waiting on some replacement tubes. Into the Allnic and then the MM stage of my Marantz integrated it sounded very lively but with a surprising amount of gain, so much so that it was annoying, got loud very soon after zero on the volume pot and WAY too loud pretty soon after that. Using the remote to adjust volume was a non-starter, had to do it by hand in the tiniest increments.
But, like I said, it sounded good, sparkly, a lot of detail. I also know the DL103 has a strange output impedance so I figured it wasn't mating well with the Allnic and didn't think about it.
A while ago I made a trade with a guy for some records and also got a Denon SUT from the 70s, a 310 that I believe was actually made for the 103 (when I took it from the guy I did so thinking eventually I'd get around to trying a 103). So I dug this out (bit of a project, couldn't remember where I put it) and brought it into the office. Now the 310 has a passthrough button so you can disengage the transformers if you choose. When I hooked it up I discovered that with the transformers engaged I still had way too much gain, and with them disengaged, well, the cart sounded good and loud.
So I put on a Shure m97xe, another cart I run here at the office. A-B'ing it against this cart purporting to be a DL-103 with the trannies disengaged I found that at the same volume setting on the Marantz the "DL103" played a little louder than the Shure.
And, as I'm sure most of you know at least vaguely... that ain't right. The m97xe has an output voltage of 4mv. A true DL103 has an output voltage of in the country of .3mv.
So... it's gotta be a fake right? There's nothing I'm missing here? It's not a bad sounding cart at all whatever it is, but it can't be a DL-103.
- ...
- 30 posts total
I'm with Viridian. It doesn't make sense to counterfit a DL103. If you're going to all the effort required to make a counterfit cartridge that actually does work (and sounds at least decent too), then why not just give it a name and charge the very same low price for it? I suspect there is some trivial explanation for its apparently too high output voltage. Davelarz, What do you think the seller meant by his comment that he "should have checked it". Do you take that as an admission that the cartridge is not what it purports to be? Did he say any more about what it actually is? Thx. |
I feel like you’re suffering a little from the audiophile’s distorted sense of value - coming from our bizarre realm where a $1000 (or 2000... or 3000) can be considered entry level. $200/$300 is quite a lot of money to most people. To fake something for a fraction of that price and then pawn it off as legit and make $100 or more in profit is a very good hustle. I did take the “I should have checked it” as an admission of guilt. That combined with the fact that it was very underpriced in the first place. Think about it - if you sold someone a cartridge that you fully believed to be legit and they came back and said this is a fake, wouldn’t your first response be... are you sure? There must be some mistake, etc. I would at the very least express intense surprise and be upset about it. A bland “I should have checked it I will refund” to me has the ring of “I am taking the position that I never paid close attention to this thing that I sold you” which to me is offering a too convenient alibi. But look... I don’t know. I showed it to a few people with a lot of experience and they instantly pointed out a red tube holding the cantilever that is generally white on every legit dl103. That alone made them think something was wrong with it. Maybe it had been retrofitted somehow to HO... but talk about an unlikely operation. Who would go to that effort? For what? |
Does it came with a QC data sheet? http://www.audiophileaddicts.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Denon103-FrequencyResponseAndOutputPlot-... |
@davelarz open paypal claim (if you paid with paypal) and you will get your money back including shipping both ways if you will have to return it. No loss for you with paypal buyers protection. It make sense to pay with paypal (always) and no one can cheat you, never. It make no sense for cheaters to accept paypal payment for counterfit goods, they will be guilty all the time if the buyer is not happy for whatever reason. You don't even have to talk to them, simply open paypal claim. Paypal is always on the buyers side. If your order has been paid with some other payment method then it's not that easy. P.S. Buy yourself a good cartridge, maybe some decent MM, not DL-103 and forget about it. |
- 30 posts total